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expatriate's picture
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President's First Interview

This says a lot. President Obama -- you've won the election and secured a place in history as America's first black president! Who are you going to give your first TV interview to? CBS? NBC? CNN?

No -- Al-Arabiya. Welcome to Carter 2.0.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95VEOS81&show_article=1

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President's First Interview

unreal

CVC
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President's First Interview

I have mixed feelings on this. I don't like the idea of apologizing for US wrongs, but I think he is trying to fight terrorism in his own way.

I don't think it will succeed - I think it will encourage the terrorist to continue their battle. To them, I think he has shown his underbelly, his weakness and they will be encouraged and emboldened by it.

But I commend him for trying. I commend him for looking outside the box and trying a different approach. And I do hope for all of us that he is successful.

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President's First Interview

Expat wrote,

Quote:
Welcome to Carter 2.0.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. Carter tried the kinder , gentler approach. It simply encouraged the already violent to be more so. This is a culture that for two thousand years has seen negotiation as weakness. It still does. Iran released their hostages on the day Reagan took office not because they were expecting "change" but because they were frightened. Islamic extremists will only see Obama as a weak, frightened unbeliever. CVC I'm with you. I truly hope for success. But history dictates otherwise. It will interesting though. I'm just hoping Americans don't die as a result.

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President's First Interview
BunnySlayer wrote:
Expat wrote,
Quote:
Welcome to Carter 2.0.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. Carter tried the kinder , gentler approach. It simply encouraged the already violent to be more so. This is a culture that for two thousand years has seen negotiation as weakness. It still does. Iran released their hostages on the day Reagan took office not because they were expecting "change" but because they were frightened. Islamic extremists will only see Obama as a weak, frightened unbeliever. CVC I'm with you. I truly hope for success. But history dictates otherwise. It will interesting though. I'm just hoping Americans don't die as a result.

Kinder gentler approach by Carter. He did order the hostage rescue operation which failed largely due to a lack of proper inter-service co-operation on our part. Also, to correct your statement, the Ayatollah didn't release the hostages when Reagan was sworn in due to 'fear'. He waited and released them when Reagan took office as a final insult to Carter. It was purely a spite directed at Carter not because they were shaking in their boots over Reagan.

Also, you want to talk about F upped tactics when it comes to dealing with Iran and who empowered them more. Look no further then Bush who took away the biggest buffer against them (saddam) and who installed a ShiIte Gov. cozily in bed with Iran. Southern Iraq is practically governed by Iran now. Bush did more to actually HELP Iran then anyone else in the last thirty years. But nooooooooo, in your view Obama's the big screw up and it ain't even a month into his term. Yeah right!

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President's First Interview
Quote:
He did order the hostage rescue operation which failed largely due to a lack of proper inter-service co-operation on our part.

As usual my friend your history is skewed. Planning and execution were conducted by Delta, SEALS, and Air Force spec ops personnel. The operation failed due to engines in the aircraft not being prepared to deal with desert sands and the fact that Carter waited far too long to initiate it making it far to difficult and complex to pull off. As usual you can blame that one on politicians, not the military. If you doubt this read the late Col. Charlie Beckwiths(Delta's 1st C.O.) biography as well as Cmdr. Richard Marcinkos bio. They were both instrumental in the panning of this op. SEAL team six was created largely due to lessons learned from the failed Iran rescue.

Quote:
Also,
Quote:
It was purely a spite directed at Carter not because they were shaking in their boots over Reagan. [/quote

This is the admitted reason but do you really believe fear of Reagan didn't factor into their thinking? Get real.

Quote:
Also, you want to talk about F upped tactics when it comes to dealing with Iran and who empowered them more. Look no further then Bush who took away the biggest buffer against them (saddam) and who installed a ShiIte Gov. cozily in bed with Iran. Southern Iraq is practically governed by Iran now. Bush did more to actually HELP Iran then anyone else in the last thirty years

.
We're partially in agreement here believe it or not. Saddam was a buffer between Shiite extremists and the remaining Arab nations, however he had (by anyones estimation) outlived his usefullness and become a liability to the rest of the world due largely to his unpredictability. His human rights violations were horriffic as well. I don't miss him, Do you? As far as installing a shiite government goes I agree it was probably not the wisest thing to do however given the politics in this part of the world what was he supposed to install, a right wing Christian group? That would be popular I'm sure. The Kurds don't have the wherewithall and the Sunis are too busy killing each other to run for dog catcher.
I really hope Obama succeeds in this. My only point is that culturaly and historicaly the gentle approach hasnt been successful here.

]

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I read Rogue Warrior back when it came out when I was a young e-4 in the Navy coincidentally. Anyway, from what I recall and as you pointed out corrections were made due to the inter-service communication problems at that time. From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

The failure of the various services to work together with cohesion forced the establishment of a new multi-service organization. The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) was established and became operational on April 16, 1987. Each service now has its own Special Operations Forces under the overall control of USSOCOM. For example, the Army has its own Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) that controls the Army Special Operations Forces (ARSOF). The Air Force special ops unit that supplied the C-130 elements of the rescue attempt was awarded the AF Outstanding Unit Award for both that year and the next, was assigned its own squadron of HH-53H Pave Low (Super Jolly) helicopters for long-range low-level night flying operations, and became co-hosts at its home base of Hurlburt Field with the Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC).
The lack of highly trained Army helicopter pilots that were capable of the low-level night flying needed for modern special forces missions prompted the creation of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR) (Night Stalkers).

Also from wiki:

Retired Chief of Naval Operations Admiral James L. Holloway III led the official investigation in 1980 into the causes of the failure of the operation on behalf of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Holloway Report primarily cited deficiencies in mission planning, command and control, and inter-service operability, and provided a catalyst to reorganize the Department of Defense, and the Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986.

In regard to your comment about the Shiites, the right wing views them, Iran, as the worst thing since burnt bread made by Satan himself. So, what do they do? Take out the biggest buffer against them and install a Shiite Gov. who loves them and vice a versa. Seems real smart to me. Put religious extremist nuts in charge who love Iran. Who's that feller in the black robes who's Mahdi Army killed countless Americans and who fled to Iran for Sanctuary and who's back in Iraq now leading his Army again?

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Quote:
The failure of the various services to work together with cohesion forced the establishment of a new multi-service organization.

First , thank you for your service to our country. Now on to the arguing!
The failure of operation Eagle Claw was not a failure of various branches of the military to work together so much as it was a logistical nighmare of various types of equipment not being compatible, communications, aircraft etc etc. This had nothing to do with failure on the part of the miltary but on overall unsuitability of their equipment to intermesh with one another. Largely due too the fact it had never been tried before. Hence the creation of SOCOM as you pointed out. The same failures in the invasion of Grenada also played a major role in the creation of SOCOM. Had Carter had the cojones to initiate an operation earlier in the hostage take over, before the students were replaced and equiped by the Iranian government a rescue might have been possible. Unfortunately it's just speculation. Does make for interesting debate though.

Quote:
In regard to your comment about the Shiites, the right wing views them, Iran, as the worst thing since burnt bread made by Satan himself. So, what do they do? Take out the biggest buffer against them and install a Shiite Gov. who loves them and vice a versa

.

And your solution would be Mr. President? Leave Hussien in power? Give it to the Sunnis who are killing each other faster than the Shiites can? The kurds maybe? None seem like great choices to me. What would you have done? I don't have the perfect solution, do you? I can't disagree with you that the Shiite's are less than ideal.

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In answer to your question if President SoCo had won the election back in 00 would have been to. One, not attack Iraq as they weren't a legitimate threat. We had the no fly zones in effect which were effective. I remember reading how Saddam would sometimes order a radar site to 'paint' our planes as they patrolled the no fly zone. That was unfortunate for the guys manning the radar station as they had to follow orders or they'd get a bullet in the head. But, the other alternative wasn't much better as our planes would terminate them. Same end for those poor guys either way.

My view is that Saddam could have effectively been dealt with in a number of ways without the cost we and the Iraqi population has suffered from. We could have covertly sponsored a coup, we could have offered covert support in a plan to kill him, a number of things. But, that would have interfered with the Neocon goal of getting control of the infrastructure of the country for themselves. You know, no bid contracts for Halliburton, Blackwater, KBR, another words it would have interfered with the money making opportunities the Neocons were salivating at besides the whole 'Shining Beacon of Democracy' fantasy.

Heck, even left in Power he was no threat to us. Had, I been in charge after 9/11 I would have done the same thing as Bush in regard to Afghanistan with on major difference. I would have thrown all forces at eliminating Al Qaeda as severely and thoroughly as possible. I would have used Intelligence capabilities to monitor terrorist operations as closely as possible by the FBI and CIA/NSA. I would have then used Special forces teams and other covert capabilities we posses to kill terrorists at every opportunity where ever possible.

This way things like Abu Gairab, Gitmo, Ethnic cleansing in Iraq by Sunni's, Kurds, Shiites, could have been avoided. 4,000 American deaths could have been avoided, Bin Laden likely would have been confirmed dead. Heck, had Bush done this your team would likely still be in CHARGE.

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Quote:
I would have then used Special forces teams and other covert capabilities we posses to kill terrorists at every opportunity where ever possible.

In other words, "kill em all, let god sort em out" ! Funny when you say it Mr. president no one screams bloody murder! Your a gifted speaker Sir ! Be careful Sir or someone will think your a right wing war monger. Just saying Sir!

Quote:
My view is that Saddam could have effectively been dealt with in a number of ways without the cost we and the Iraqi population has suffered from. We could have covertly sponsored a coup, we could have offered covert support in a plan to kill him, a number of things

.
So you support CIA sponsored terrorism, assassinations of world leaders and American sponored coups of soverign peacfull nations? Wow! How right wing of you Mr. President. As a member of congress, Senator Expat and myself are fully and completly behind you in your endeavor for world peace. Just to let you know Sir, the French hate you too so far.

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I would have thrown all forces at eliminating Al Qaeda as severely and thoroughly as possible. I would have used Intelligence capabilities to monitor terrorist operations as closely as possible by the FBI and CIA/NSA.
Quote:
Bin Laden likely would have been confirmed dead

Gee Mr. Preident but I wasnt aware of any intelligence we had that was that great and magical. Possibly if such mystical knoweledge is available Sir then respectfully why haven't we blown the SOB to hell and gone before now your Presidentship Sir? How Sir are we finding one damn Arab in a cave when the CIA can't even accurately tell us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Just asking Sir.

Quote:
Ethnic cleansing in Iraq by Sunni's, Kurds, Shiites, could have been avoided.

Yes President SoCo that little problem you did solve. Saddam Heussien' s still killing them himself. Those people are just as dead Mr. President but have no fear. You did nothing to help...I mean interfere Sir. Very good.

Quote:
Abu Gairab, Gitmo

Yes Sir Mr. President we have released all those guys already. No more Gitmo Sir. Umm..... where exactly would you like Mr. Atta to go Sir? He said something on the way out about seeing us soon. What do you think he meant by that?

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You must have me confused with someone else there bunny for I've never said, I'm against killing people that are legitimate enemies are intending to do us harm. And, in that process if we are conducting these actions in an intelligent and efficient manner, I don't care what the French or anyone else think of it. I think the great majority of Americans both right and left feel this way. The problem with Bush is starting a war against someone who wasn't a threat under false pretenses and then conducting it in such an inept manner as to ultimately increase the amount of disaffected Arabs who want to wage Jihad against us. All while taking the focus of of the country and it's inhabitants, Taliban/Al Qaeda who did attack us.

If waging secret war but waging it against the right people is effective and keeps our troops and as many innocents from dying as possible I'm all for it. Most of our other allies would probably condone it and turn a blind eye if we were doing it right. It's the whole way we conducted the Iraq war from starting with lies to it's bungled managment which turned world opinion against us even among traditional allies.

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