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SoCoKHntr's picture
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Quote:
I agree that this fellow is hopeless.

Just a couple thoughts before I'm done.

Every Democratic president since Andrew Johnson in 1865-69 has used military force against a sovereign nation without being attacked first. Johnson was a little iffy, because America was broken after the Civil War. But I should point out, though, that the states that attacked the US in that conflict chose a Democrat as their president.

Don't try to tell me Jimmy Carter didn't do it, because he sent forces into combat in Iran. Just because he got them killed before they made contact with the enemy doesn't mean it doesn't count.

If you study history, the Mexican American War, Spanish American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the Balkans all began under Democratic leadership.

On the other hand, since the War of 1812 the only Republicans to initiate military action against a sovereign nation without a precipitating attack against the US were Reagan and the Bushes.

So IMO the Democrats have absolutely no credibility when they act horrified that a president would take military action. They practically invented the concept, and are renowned for it.

As for the Germany analogy, I stand by it. If I use the Left's arguments, our war against Germany was unjust and illegal because Germany never attacked us. Furthermore, Pearl Harbor was FDR's fault because it happened on his watch. He obviously ignored intel warning of the attack, to include Billy Mitchell predicting the day of the week, time of day (within minutes), type of attack , forces to be used, and even the direction of the attack -- all in 1925. So Roosevelt ignored intel for almost nine years before the attack. But I suppose that was because he wanted war with Japan in order to get cheap watches and smaller radios. As for Germany, I suppose he initiated that war in order to pay of the rich industrialists. It really isnt' a stretch to make the comparison, other than to point out that FDR had a whole lot more warning than Bush did.

Simply astounding. My assertion is Bush did the wrong thing and your argument is to bring up past wars going back two hundred years. Leaders in your examples whether on the 'right' or 'left' may have made good or bad choices told the truth or lied. Humans aren't perfect or beyond dishonorable actions no matter which 'party' they choose.

My argument isn't that everything has always been perfect up to the point Bush came into office or wars were fought for perfect reasons. And, my concern isn't things of the long gone past, but what is going on now in my lifetime at the present. In my view even taking the examples you have given there has never been an example of an administration so blatantly manipulating the American people and then even after getting what they wanted bungling it with what looks like the highest level of incompetence this country has ever seen.

You and others who think like you are so entrenched in a mentality of 'LEFT VS RIGTHT' 'US VS THEM' 'REBUP VS DEM', that you can't see the forrest for the trees. A stamp has been implanted on your brain that Dems = evil communists, steal your guns and bible, surrender and appease terrorists, that is the only thing you see and are therefore unable to debate an issue because you go into the debate with your mind made up already. I happen to be a Democrat but that doesn't mean I think their perfect and don't have the human faults of greed, corruption, power hunger, like any other human, politician, man, or woman, has.

What you fail to understand is how a political party can use you for their means by simply telling you "those evil bad guys are going to take your guns, but don't worry we are here to protect you". They comfort you with that and then have you in their pocket to use when needed. Yet it's the common middle class man who pays for this with their sons and daughters, with health care costs, with putting food on the table. No one is talking about a handout but rather a fair chance and level playing field. Instead of a world where fat cat CEO's who have more money then they can spend in a lifetime reap windfall profits while we struggle to fill our tanks and pay our medical bills.

I just don't understand how you guys don't see what to me is the truth. Well, I guess that is the nature of man and man will always disagree to the end of time. I will also bow out of this thread and politics here as it's mainly a Rush L. inspired forum. I will pop back in year after Obama's in office just to see if anyone is interested in being honest about any guns lost.

In closing don't let one person like me ruffle your feathers or get your heart rate up. I'm just one man with my own opinion. And, for the record I am a hunter and damn good one as well as a veteran. I'm no plant or whatever hell else that one guy tried to say about me.

Cheers

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SoCoKHntr wrote:
JTapia wrote:
SoCoKHntr sounds like a teenager who listens to the radio too much. Most of his/her comments are straight from the moveon.org website. He/she obviously has no military experience and probably is not even a hunter, but rather a PETA member in disguise.

Ex, I would no longer engage in debate with this person who believes that your son and all the other American Heroes, who have laid down their lives for the very freedoms that Obama will take away from us, got what they deserved for hurting poor innocent civilians who just happened to be outside shooting RPG's at pigeons that just happened to be alighted on some American Humvee.

Whelland , I could not agree with you more. This person is offensive and insensitive and Anti- American as well. I will take your advise and ignore everything this person post, as it means nothing other than to inflame members of this forum.

I am a hunter, gun owner, and veteran. You think just because a person would be all those things they would have to agree with your propaganda?

Please don't be a liar. I never once said anyone got what they deserved! I told that man I wish his son was still with him and hadn't lost his life in a needless war.

If you can't distinguish between between an American voicing their opinion and have to sink to using juvenile smears (he/she member of peta) you have no tact or honor and aren't worth debating.

You fellows don't really want honest debate. You want total agreement and lockstep thinking with the politics of fear and hate.

I stand by my conclusions and the readers of this thread can make up their own minds.

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Quote:
What you fail to understand is how a political party can use you for their means by simply telling you "those evil bad guys are going to take your guns, but don't worry we are here to protect you".

Hillary used the same argument against Barrack (minus the "evil bad" part). Democrats are no strangers to the politics of fear. You can see the mailer Hillary sent around here:

http://www.biggamehunt.net/node/24408

SoCo, I've read your posts for awhile and I don't think your a plant or have reason to believe you are other than what you say you are.

When I read your posts its clear that you support Barrack, but when it gets into why you support Barrack, it inevitably leads into how the current administration has failed (Iraq, economy, wealth-divide, etc). Then you throw in some words like "McSame" implying of course that McCain will be no different than Bush. It would help if you gave specifics as to why Barrack is superior, other than he's "not more of the same".

For me this seems to be the most disappointing part of Barrack's rise, he rides the wave of disillusionment with the current administration. This seems like a false win to me, because it rides on disappointment and anger rather than on logic. In other words Republican's may lose this election in a big way not because Democrats have shown some new ideology or made significant progress for the nation in the last two years, rather they will win because they are "not the party of Bush".

You do have a lot of company SoCo, your all upset and your marching with Barrack. In general I don't question the reasons for being upset or the marching, I question Barrack.

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I agree. I don't think SoCoKHntr is a plant either. He is simply a democrat with differing views than ours. I think JTapia was out of line with those type of accusations about SoCoKHntr. Nothing wrong at all with having differing view points as long as we can give our viewpoints without taking offense or attcking someone for having an opinion or a different experience. I thought we were all adults here with the ability to engage in logical debate???? Don't banish or shun SoCo just because he has differing view points, unless of course he has really intentionally offended you.

I do wish however that SoCoKHntr would wake up and see the reality that the current modern democratic pary and leftwing liberals really do intend on severly modifying our American way of life and destroying our rights to keep and bear arms. For being a serious gun owner SoCo really needs to understand that we can't give an inch to the left, we can't give anything up to them. Be vigilant. This is the reason we still have the 2nd amendment rights we do. It's because of vigilant Americans and the NRA. Just remember that once a ball starts rolling down hill, it only gains momentum. This is the way you need to see it SoCo. Just look at what California (and other states) has done to gun rights over the years and what they are proposing for the near future. In Colorado we've been pretty lucky so far in this regard, and maybe that's why you don't see the damage being done or your guns being taken away. I assure you it has happened and is currently happening in other states. Don't let that ball gain downhill momentum in our state.

Of course it's not just the democrats, many republicans are guilty of this as well. I do see why people like SoCo have had enough with the current administration. I certainly have had enough with that cartoon character we elected into office. I'm too ashamed to even say his name.

Still that has not made me sway back to the democratic party. See, I too was once a democrat for the first couple years I was registered to vote. My parents were dems, so I was too. But, in my parents generation, democrat views were much different than today, and not liberal either. It only took a short while for me to see that the democratic party was not for me. Became unaffiliated for a while then joined the Republican party and never looked back. However I have always had strong Libertarian views, but am registered as a Republican, and happy to be.

I sure hope McCain will do a better job.

CVC
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My views tend to be different than SoCoHntr's but that doesn't mean he shouldn't express his views. I disagree with about 75% of what he believes, but would we really want to live in a society where everyone thought the same?

Debate is good because it gives me a chance to test the metal of my views, to hone and strengthen them.

WesternHunter made an excellent point regarding California. If we want to see what the US would be like if the liberal agenda permeated the entire country then all we need to do is to look at the bastions of liberalism. Places like San Francisco, New York city and so on.

I doubt that BHO views San Francisco the way I do. He probably would feel very comfortable living there. I would not.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Hey gents, for those that disagree with me, but support my right to have my own view and don't believe the 'peta plant' theory, I do thank you!

The only way the any unit is going to come together from a family to a country is to try to view the debate from one another's perspective. We may not agree, but come away with a little more understanding. After all that's what America was built on the freedom to have your own views.

As I said, I will be bowing out of the political forum here for awhile but would be interested in discussing our gun situation in a year or two or four if Obama does in fact get elected.

See you in the hunting forums!

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I don't think SoCo is a plant...when you show a plant the light, it'll turn toward it instead of away. Big smile

But in all seriousness, I may get frustrated with the logic people use but I would never deny them the right to hold their views. I do, however, think there are a couple rules in life that one should never break:

1. Never call an ex girlfriend after you've been drinking

2. Never pee near an electric fence

3. Never vote when you're angry

SoCoKHntr's picture
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expatriate wrote:
I don't think SoCo is a plant...when you show a plant the light, it'll turn toward it instead of away. Big smile

But in all seriousness, I may get frustrated with the logic people use but I would never deny them the right to hold their views. I do, however, think there are a couple rules in life that one should never break:

1. Never call an ex girlfriend after you've been drinking

2. Never pee near an electric fence

3. Never vote when you're angry

Thanks! And I do offer my most sincere condolences for your loss to you and your family.

Good hunting

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expatriate wrote:
"Never pee near an electric fence"

I Say; " Don't knock it unless you tried it" Thumbs up

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I don't believe SoCo is a plant either. I do not agree with his views and admittedly can't completely understand his logic. With that being said, we live in a free country and everyone (SoCo included) has a right to their opinion and vote for the candidate of their choice.

Our right to vote is our most important right. I'd rather see SoCo vote for BHO than not vote at all. I also don't understand why there are so many people in this country that don't vote.

When I hear people complain about the government and our elected officials, my 1st question is always, "Did you vote?" If they tell me no, I explain their right to do so and that they shouldn't complain until they cast a ballot.

Everyone: If you're not registered to vote, you should do so.

In summary, One of us (either SoCo or I) will be complaining a lot after the election.......but at least we'll be practicing our most important right.

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