48 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: North Louisiana
Joined: 12/08/2006
Posts: 120
New hunting rifle
fuzzybear wrote:
I'm not questioning. I understand long range shooting.
I fail to understand how hunting and 2000yds end up in the same statement.

fuzzybear

Hmmmmmm......let's say the guys gonna 'hunt'.....the ten ring on a steel plate!! lol Thumbs up

Offline
Location: North Louisiana
Joined: 12/08/2006
Posts: 120
New hunting rifle
WesternHunter wrote:
My personal opinion and experience.....If you can't get within 200yrds of a big game animal, then you need to re-think your hunting strategy.

I see little or no reason to have to even attempt those so called 300+ or more yard shots. I've hunted with some pretty experienced hunters who are great shots, and with one pal who rutinely shoot 1000yrd benchrest. He nor the rest of them have ever ever considered risking that shot beyond 400 yrds in the field on a big game animal.

I occasionally hear some people claim to have taken that one shot kill in the field out to 600+ yards eye roll Well I've been hunting and shooting way too long to believe those claims. Even military snipers can't be sure of getting that shot into a vital area beyond 700 yards. From 800 out to 1000 yrds they can only hope to hit anywhere from the top of the head to the bottom of the torso, in that area. When I hear claims like that about hunting in the field I just reach for a bigger shovel and higher rubber boots Talk to the Hand

WesternHunter

In so much as the statement about the 'bigger shovel and higher rubber boots'.....here's a little gal that would make ya eat ya hat if you were crazy enuff ta bet her that she couldn't consistently 'bust' 1 gal. milk jugs from 500 yds. with that rifle she's got! She's damn deadly (all 5' 2" and 105# of her) shootin prone over a backpack!

Offline
Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
New hunting rifle

I think some of us are confusing long range killing with hunting. Much like the media calls a poacher, a hunter that is hunting out of season.
I, myself am the proud owner of a very fine long range rifle. Ready to shoot, it weights in at 12+lbs. Sports a 26" #5 contour Douglas premium air gauged barrel with a Montana action and topped off with a Bushnell Elite 10x 44 scope with target towers. I don't have any problem ringing the bell at 500yds. I've tagged rabbits out to 700 and, though I've never tried it, with practice I know it would hit out to 1000.
The local gun club has several events throughout the season with four separate rifle ranges. One at 100yds. One at 100 to 200yds. One at 100 to 500yds and one at 500 to 1100yds. They attract a great variety of shooters and have a variety of events. There is no shortage of long range shooters and some very interesting firearms, from the over the counter rifle to 40" rail guns and about any cartridge configuration ever thought of.
There isn't a one of these shooters that would or ever has used one of these rifles to "hunt" a game animal at extreme range. Any one of them probably could. They just don't
With the proper knowledge of equipment. It isn't unreasonable to take an across canyon shot or ......... if necessary but, if it's a bad hit them what. Are you going to hunt the animal down after you screw up. Why not hunt him down so you don't screw up.
We're big boys and girls. Lets try and take some accountability for our actions. Let's not confuse the ability for a long range kill with hunting.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
New hunting rifle

Hey Fuzzybear, I don't know where your at in Washington but I do know of a guy in the Renton area that shoots 1000yd competation. He has several rifles but the one I saw was a 35# 308Baer (sp). He told me how he uses it and his 6.5 Gibbs to shoot deer and elk. Claimes he drives as close as he can to where he sets up at and drags in a shooting bench and sand bags filled with kitty litter. He and another long range shooter from Penn that I talked with both claim they won't shoot at less then 1000yds because it's no challenge.

There lies the problem. The only thing that intrests them is the challenge of the shot. I doubt that if it looks like a miss they leave their very expensive equipment and hike out 1000yds to see if theres maybe blood that would indicate a hit when they felt they may have missed. Then, how do you mark a spot 1000yds away so that you can go right to it to check for blood? You don't. I'm also quite certain they will claim to doing these things!

I doubt most competative long range shooters do this shooting at game, I hope not. But just as the poacher is called a hunter in the press, so are these guys who's only concern is the shot. They cast a great deal of doubt on two fine sports, long range shooting and hunting! To make matters worse, these things are glorified all over the place and far to many people that couldn't hit a watermelon at 50 yds are thinking they can do it with the right rifle and cartridge. Most of us know thats wrong. Others think that by meerly shooting a lot and calling it practice, they can do it too. Again that's wrong. A long range shooter must be a much better student of balistics than I and I'm not that bad.

We have read where one individual thinks he can hit anything at 40 yds with a bow anything we could hit with a rifle,,,sugar cubes? The same individual is often supportive of long range shooting. Now either this guy is an unbelieveable shot with a bow or a crappy shot with a rifle! In either case, he has supported long range shooting and many people read what he has to say. You want to take shooting lessons from him? Maybe with a bow!!!

I think that at some point we will be hit with ranges it's legal to shoot at, I think many would support that right now, I would. Don't say it can't happen. We have speed limits in cars even when we are out in nowhere with no one else around. I seem to remember that there are range limits for shooting in europe also. We sit here thinking the NRA is gonna keep everything cozy for us and we will always be able to do as we please. I wouldn't bet on that either.

We as the general hunting/shooting public must take the responsibility ourselves to police our own ranks or sooner or later someone's gonna do it for us. We might not like their idea of correctness!

Offline
Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
New hunting rifle

Don F
I'm in the Tacoma area. The range I'm referring to is in Eatonville, about 15 miles south of me. Renton is about 20 miles north.
I'm with the understanding that you are in the Prineville area. I have a lot of family in Bend and throughout the Deschutes woods. I travel down to visit a couple of time a year.
I totally understand where your coming from on your views. If we as hunters and shooters don't start taking some accountability. Someone is going to do it for us and we may not like their decisions.
My preferred method of hunting is archery. Longbow, recurve or compound.

Offline
Location: North Louisiana
Joined: 12/08/2006
Posts: 120
New hunting rifle
rost495 wrote:
Okay, your call. I never said that folks kill them all day long at long range. I've shot no PDs, but a fair share of woodchucks on out to about 1200 yards. Had a good buddy in TN that let us hunt.

BTW the caribou was also witnessed and my spotter was one of my former 4H shooters I'd coached a few years back. Without his help the shot was gonna be a bit harder to say the least. And he made his longest shot at just over 300 yards later in the hunt.

Anyway I do a lot of work to be able to make long shots. My hobby is or more precisely at this point, was, highpower shooting. I hold high master in both across the course and long range. that classification means I'm in the 10 or x ring 97% or more of the time with an iron sighted AR15 from positions of standing, sitting, and prone with only a sling for support at ranges starting at 200 yards and ending at 1000 yards.

Call all the bs you want. I've got a whole wall of certificates, medals, trophies etc.... from putting in the time to be able to poke longer shots. My only regret is that I have to choose between shooting and hunting now and hunting will get all my time and effort for a long time to come. I'll miss Camp Perry and all the national matches....I don't consider myself a "real shooter" like you say.

The part I love though, is if I have to make a longer shot I can. Can do a 300 yard muzzleloader shot if needed. Can shoot a centerfire to about 1000 yards give or take if needed. Haven't shot a bow in years much but used to be able to hit a coke can in the pasture from about 50-60 yards almost all the time with a judo head. I love getting close, but its a joy to have the capabilities to reach out.

And I didn't mention the fun one can have with a 50 bmg round. Only if you have a long range though. They are fun out around a mile or more. My wife even likes to pop a few off with them. My buddy bought one a few years back. Its a shame its gonna force me to spend the money on one sooner or later if they don't get banned too soon.

Final note-- when I started in shooting in 90, I could shoot deer with a scoped rifle. Had never shot one past 300 yards. Had trouble in matches keeping all shots at 300 yards inside an 18 inch circle. Many years and many barrels and bullets have passed since then. 300 yards with iron sights my 22 shot groups average around 1.5 to 2 inches most matches. Give me a scope on the AR and I can almost cut that down to 1-1.5 inches. So I've come a long way. And its proof that anyone that does disciplined practice can do the same. I'm far from a natural shot. You can do this too. You just have to be dedicated to what you chase. Some days I hate the internet. You just can't get across by typing. Suffice it to say I have numerous shooting friends all across the US that don't doubt any of the shots I've made or will make. I'm nothing over here on hunting sights. I am a bit well known on highpower shooting sights. Even having the pleasure to beat the greatest shot of all time G David Tubb at his own game once at our state matches. The largest problem here is folks that can't make a long shot, they tend to think its not possible. Until someone shows them it is. I had a good 22-250 once upon a time. We had a rock the size of a VW appx and could only get about 800-900 yards away from it. I got it zerod off the hood of the truck one afternoon and gave it to 2 deer hunters that could not believe it. A few shots later each had easily hit it. Want to really call some BS? http://www.longrangehunting.com has folks on it that make shots way on out there. Past what my capabilities are at this point. You are well educated in the sport if you read PS. The LRH site will educate folks even more.

want some practice(fake but fun) go to shooterready.com the menu is on the left and its pretty neat. Gives wind flags to read, mildots to range targets and allows you to range, wind dope and shoot. I'm thinking of getting the CD for rainy weekends.

Jeff

Shato-- i've edited this to allow a bit of clarification on the bou. The slope distance was a true 802 yards. But due to the elevation and angle, the shot was much more like a 600 yard shot distance wise. I played with the GPS on elevation after the shot and my guess to use a 600 yard hold was within about 25-50 yards of being right. I did not have a cosine angle indicator on the gun as it was my buddies rifle. That would have allowed it to be more precise. As it was it was close enough.

rost495

Hehe!! Son.. Brick Wall,) Brick Wall,) ..you're fightin a losing battle!

Offline
Location: GRANDA HILLS CAL
Joined: 02/05/2006
Posts: 5
New hunting rifle

Just read some of these posts today and I had to wonder why a 400 yard shot at a broadside deer is too far. Yeah, I shot one at 600 yards a couple of years ago near Mammoth Lakes. I must have not been entriely accurate because instead of the lungs I hit a little low and hit the heart. My other other shots at deer have all been one shot/one kill. If I were a deer, I would much rather be shot long distance by me than by someone shooting much closer rushing their shots and hitting me poorly and letting me die a nice slow death. I am sure there are guys who can shoot a lot better than me. As of now 600 yards is my limit until I practice even more.

Offline
Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 3
New hunting rifle

Jeff I am with you all the way. I have spent the money and time on practicing long range shots. I have shot thousands and thousands of shots in the field up to 1500 yards(practice) so that when I am on my hunting trip that costs $12,000 and its the last day of the hunt and the Dall sheep is at 975 yards and its either shoot or just say, ah shucks he's too fare, I am going to put a high shoulder shot on him and role his ass! My gun shoots consistantly under 6-7 inches at 1000 yards. Here is a pic of a five shot group at 1025 yards.

I know exactly how many MOA do dial my scope, I have a Leica 1200 range finder that tells me how far the animal is, I have an anti-canting device so I know I am not putting any wind into my shots at long range, only verical, I have a wind meater that tells me how fast the wind is, temperature, barametric pressure etc. I would never take a shot on an animal that I have not proven in practice at least 15+ times. I am talking a cold bore shot any distance out to 1200. This means if I can not consistantly hit the 11x15" tractor weight the very first shot within 5" of the center, I will not do it on an animal. When a rifle and shooter has enough accuracy and practice, I think it is perfectly fine to shoot animals at long range. Not the idiots that have "30-378itis" that think, "Well I have the biggest baddest rifle there is, I can hit anything." I won a bet of 300 bucks one time from a guy who was talkin $hit. He said he could out shoot me and I said pick a distance. He said 500 yards. I told him to take 3 shots at a piece of 10x10" cardboard. He did not hit it one single shot. I have a pic of my 3 shot group at 500 from that contest because It was a sweet win!

Offline
Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 3
New hunting rifle

Also check these sights out....

http://www.kinneman.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=10
(By the way, you can not get this certificate unless witnessed by another member of this club)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXNFXxJ0hQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBYO98pePN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4aqmbaGIo

Tell me they cant make long range hits

Damnit I am pissed now! angry People telling me I cant shoot how far I want, If you dont like it dont do it, dont sit there and tell me no because you dont know how or dont understand! Not a damn thing you can do to stop us! I know we are a small group of hunters but we rarely loose animals, in fact way fewer!, than those who shoot closer shots, within 300 yards. I would much rather shoot at an elk that is 550 yards grazing and relaxed than one I just called in to 75 yards all bowed up on adrenaline and testosterone. The odds that you will drop the elk at 550 are much greater than the one called in that is ready to battle to the death.

In fact I have never EVER lost an animal shot past 300 yards. My family owns a high game deer ranch in TX and not a single hunter has lost an animal past that distance either. We have lost 7 as of this year that were within 100 yards. It all boils down to practice and what you have proven before hand on targets!

Offline
Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 3
New hunting rifle
shatodavis wrote:
I once saw a squirrel shot out of a 50 foot tall tree from approximately a 1/4 mile away (400 yards). With a snap, off hand 22 lr shot.

Hey big guy, 400 yards is not 1/4 of a mile. 440 yards = 1/4 mile. 400 meters is 1/4 mile. A 40 yard misread distance is a miss, big time!

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Rifle permit question.kamuzai810/10/2011 16:17 pm
Help... First RifleTETAGOUCHER708/07/2006 16:03 pm
New rifle which one?Craig112/03/2004 15:54 pm
Bear HuntingStill Hunter1202/06/2012 10:35 am
New to hunting looking for advise on Rifle selectionNewbienCal4404/04/2013 17:14 pm