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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
New hunting rifle

Well out here, one of the best hunting ranches around was just closed to all hunters, because a man saw what he thought was a deer atop a ridge some 450 yards away. He shot, and it lumbered away. Later, it turned out to be one of the rancher's calves.

Even in other parts of the country, this is a big problem. Some owners of private game ranches require all hunters to qualify their marksmanship before they can hunt. Other landowners are saying no entirely.

I don't have a problem with a hunter shooting a game animal out to 400 yards. Beyond that, to me, is unethical. In my opinion, before a hunter even thinks about taking a shot like that, their groups, from natural hunting positions need to be 1.5 inches or smaller at 100 yards, and still under 3 inches at 200 yards.

Every bolt action rifle I own can and has shot groups of 1 inch or under at 100 yards. One rifle, a Remington 700 ADL synthetic chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum, produced two three-shot groups of 1-3/4 inches at 200 yards from a benchrest. I have lot of confidence in that rifle. In hunting, its never even made a 200 yard shot. I'd shoot a large buck or a big elk at 400 yards IF I felt comfortable with the hold. But I wouldn't ever shoot farther, because that just isn't ethical.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
New hunting rifle

30 or 40 yards is usually a sensible range for a bow, although a 50 or 60 yard shot can happen. For a deer, a good quality broadhead should still penetrate the heart or lungs, but if I ever bowhunt elk, I'm staying under 30 yards.

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Joined: 09/23/2004
Posts: 137
New hunting rifle

I've seen antelope shot at some impressive distances. But, they are light, thin skinned animals. They don't take a lot to kill. I've personally taken a elk at between 350 to 400 yards. I didn't have a range finder so everythings a guess. Ballistically the bullet dropped enough to be 375 yards. Thats if my hold was perfect. We all know, in the hunting woods no hold is perfect. I've seen people shoot deer at 80 yards with a bow. I once saw a squirrel shot out of a 50 foot tall tree from approximately a 1/4 mile away (400 yards). With a snap, off hand 22 lr shot.

Now that all being said. Is it ethical? Is it smart? I don't have the answers. I shot the elk at that long a range because I felt good about the shot. Could I make it again? I think so. Can I shoot a bow accurately at 80 yards? NO. Can I make that shot with the 22. Hell NO. Anyone, who would be truthful would tell you that taking shots at game beyond 300 yards is a 50/50 proposition. You'll miss as many as you make.

Its true that the chance are greater that you may wound an animal at longer distances. , I would take my chances with a person who has practiced at long range, over someone who shoots once a year just prior to season at a close range.

Now 800, 1000, 1500 yard shots are way out of my league. I don't even pretend to be able to shoot accurately at those distances. There are those who can, I'm just not one of them. I will say this, Its hard to imagine a cartridge having enough kinetic energy at those ranges to kill much. Of course a 50 BMG is whole other story, but we don't hunt with a 50.

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Location: SW Washington
Joined: 06/24/2004
Posts: 38
New hunting rifle

Jeff,

Since there are less than 1500 HM in Highpower and less than 400 HM in Long-range Highpower you should be well known in the competitive circuits. Why not post your real name, and the event where you beat G. David and let your critics look up your credentials?

Just a thought.

Lee Sellers

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Location: Montana
Joined: 02/13/2005
Posts: 409
New hunting rifle

3/4 of a hunt is getting close enough to a free ranging animal to make an ethical/clean shot,long range target shooting is a blast but why mix the two?If you dont have the skills to make a stalk stay on the range and out of the field,any halfass shot with a .50 bmg and a bipod can make a 1200 yrd shot and that is NOT hunting!My 7mm rem mag will shoot great groups at distances that I do not consider ethical,the only time I would consider a shot at a distance in the 5-600 yard range would be a situation where i was trying to finish a wounded animal and because I dont shoot at a big game animal unless i feel confident that Im gonna drop it on the first shot I dont have that problem.When it comes to gophers/coyotes/fox/badger/ect.ect. no range is out of question as long as I feel there is no risk of an unsafe backstop.I dont know how many times i have come across antelope with legs/noses/asses blown off while out hunting and that is a direct result of people taking running shots usually in a herd scenario,anytime you are dealing with a herd of game animals a running shot is nat an ethical choice and is the #1 reason for game animals wounded or accidently killed and left in the field to rot.Keep the hunt in hunting and remember we are out there to challenge ourselves and our hunting skills dont reduce it to a 1200 yard turkey shoot with a benchrest rifle with a bull barrel and a 5200 fps cartridge.There are plenty of prarie dogs/gophers out there to satsfy our longrange bloodlust!!!

Don Fischer's picture
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Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
New hunting rifle

I ran into one of these guy's that really thought he was hot stuff year's ago. He was shooting a 30-338 and claimed he could hit our blacktail deer at one mile. I made a bet with him that we could put up a 50 gal drum at one mile and he could shoot as long as he wanted, $1 per shot with a min of 20 shot's. He took rhe bet and never showed up. Saw him the next day and he claimed his kid needed to take the rifle home with him.

Now this guy was talking 1000 to 1500 yd prairie dog's. Yes indeed, Varmit Hunter Assoc. has a 1500 yd club. I heard rumor's of a 2000 yd shot also. But this guy, by his own admission has never shot at one. Does claim 1200 yd woodchuck's tho and I think it was 1 1/2" and 2" 200 yd group's with a 22. 22 what? Centerfire, I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.

I know that there are people that shoot at big game at those range's and I find it absolutely apalling. It's easy to claim a clean miss on a wounded deer at those range's. There is absolutely nothing ethical about that nonsence, even for those that can do it now and again.

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Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
New hunting rifle

Just for the heck of it I ran these figures through my ballistics program.

For the benefit of the doubt

120gr 25 caliber bullet with a BC of .800 (a very long one)

................................velocity...................energy.....................drop

muzzle..................3600 fps.............3454 fpe...............+1.5 inches
1000 yds..............2367 fps.............1493 fpe.................0
2000 yds..............1461 fps...............569 fpe............... -662.85 inches

I didn't even try to calculate the windage.

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Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
New hunting rifle
fuzzybear wrote:
2000 yds..............1461 fps...............569 fpe............... -662.85 inches

Wow, thats over 55 feet. Helluva hold over for that !!!

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Location: SW Washington
Joined: 06/24/2004
Posts: 38
New hunting rifle

I'm curious as to what twist rate would be necessary to stabilize such a bullet. Faster than anything that is found on field type rifles to be sure!

Lee

WesternHunter's picture
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Joined: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2368
New hunting rifle

My personal opinion and experience.....If you can't get within 200yrds of a big game animal, then you need to re-think your hunting strategy.

I see little or no reason to have to even attempt those so called 300+ or more yard shots. I've hunted with some pretty experienced hunters who are great shots, and with one pal who rutinely shoot 1000yrd benchrest. He nor the rest of them have ever ever considered risking that shot beyond 400 yrds in the field on a big game animal.

I occasionally hear some people claim to have taken that one shot kill in the field out to 600+ yards eye roll Well I've been hunting and shooting way too long to believe those claims. Even military snipers can't be sure of getting that shot into a vital area beyond 700 yards. From 800 out to 1000 yrds they can only hope to hit anywhere from the top of the head to the bottom of the torso, in that area. When I hear claims like that about hunting in the field I just reach for a bigger shovel and higher rubber boots Talk to the Hand

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