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saskie wrote:
SSgt wrote:
What I’m hoping to get across to everyone here is this… stick to the shots you KNOW you can make.

Amen brother Thumbs up

Thank you for your kind agreement; however after re-reading my own post I think I should make one last point.
When I wrote, “stick to the shots you KNOW you can make” that means just because you can hit a dime at 100 yards 5 out of 5 shots doesn’t mean you are ready or even capable of taking that kill shot at longer ranges. I have the confidence in my ability to take a 1000 yard cold bore kill shot because I’ve made that shot hundreds of times at the range. I’ve taken the time to do the ballistics work up on my rifle. I’ve recorded every single shot I’ve ever fired through my rifle along with the scope adjustments for every range from 100 to 1000 yards and in every temp and weather condition possible. I would never attempt a shot further than 100 yards with a rifle that I haven’t spent time to do a proper work up on.
You can spend weeks on end and thousands of rounds hitting targets in the 100 to 200 yard range, but until you have spent some time at the longer ranges you really don’t know how you or your equipment will perform.

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Location: Texas
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WesternHunter wrote:
As far as sniping at 1000 yards. Isn't it true that an M40 or M24 even in very capable hand is only capable of hitting an area the size of a human torso at 1000 yards and not much tighter? It was before this global war on terrorism, you know back when it was vogue for some to B.S. about being a former F-16 or FA-18 driver instead of a special ops sniper or special forces operator/sniper. Anyway I had the priviledge in those days of taking long range shooting course taught by former Marine Corps snipers. One of the first myths they disspelled was that even with an accurized 7.62mm rifle no one will be shooting 3 inch groups at 1000 yards with a .308.

The M40 and the M24 SWS are very capable of three inch groups at 1000 yards… If fired from a bench rest by an expert marksman in perfect conditions… those are some of the best tuned rifles in the world. But like I said before, in 20 years I’ve met two… maybe 3 guys that could consistently hit 6-8 inch groups at that range from the prone supported position. My personal comfort zone has always been around the 7 to 800 yard range. Could I make the 1000 yard shot… sure I can. WOULD I make that shot if I had other options… no way in hell.

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Like I said, for hunting the least one should be capapble of doing is to keep your shots inside and area the size of a paper plate under field conditions at whatever reasonable distance you plan on shooting. That's the very least you should aspire for. But always work for much much tighter groups under field conditions, always.

I've been pretty pleased with myself for what I've been able to accomplish on paper out to 700 yards from nearly perfect benchrest conditions. I've never let that get the best of me as to even try to attempt that on a game animal in the field. No more than 300 yards is my steadfast rule for rifle hunting, and most my biggame have been taken well within 150 yrds, some as close as 25 yards. That comes from 26 years of biggame hunting.

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Location: West Carleton, Ottawa, Canada
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I'm a terrible shot. I can't hit the broad side of a barn at 200yds never mind 3 or 4...but....

It's been a LONG time since I've missed a deer. I've also come home empty handed lots of times because I didn't have a shot I was comfortable with.

Like my hunter safety instructor said..."IF I decide to squeeze the trigger, that's a dead deer. It just doesn't know it yet"

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WesternHunter wrote:
Like I said, for hunting the least one should be capapble of doing is to keep your shots inside and area the size of a paper plate under field conditions at whatever reasonable distance you plan on shooting. That's the very least you should aspire for. But always work for much much tighter groups under field conditions, always.

I've been pretty pleased with myself for what I've been able to accomplish on paper out to 700 yards from nearly perfect benchrest conditions. I've never let that get the best of me as to even try to attempt that on a game animal in the field. No more than 300 yards is my steadfast rule for rifle hunting, and most my biggame have been taken well within 150 yrds, some as close as 25 yards. That comes from 26 years of biggame hunting.

I agree completely... For me the challange of the hunt is what gets me out there, on the rare occasions I have a chance... retirement isn't what it's cut out to be.

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SSgt wrote:
JTapia wrote:
You"ll need alot more than a big scope to shoot 700-900 yards with a .308.
About the only thing that the .308 will have enough energy left to kill at that range will be Squirrels and Chipmunks.
You aint planning on shooting Alvin are you ? neener!

I would have to respectively disagree on this one. Having used a .308 for over 20 years now on game a lot harder to hit at longer distances than bear or deer… I can say (from experience) that a .308 does carry enough velocity and energy to kill almost anything you shoot at out to about 7-750yds… IF you make a GOOD shot. The trick is to understand the angle that the bullet will be traveling at that distance… But, as has been said on here MANY… MANY times before, if you HAVE to take a shot over 3-400yds… you aren’t hunting… you are target shooting. As far as scopes go… get whatever you want to get… just keep it on a lower power when you are hunting and you’ll be just fine. I prefer a fixed 10X with a mil-dot recital and an adjustable objective. KNOW your equipment and KNOW your hunting area and you’ll be just fine.

Dissention respectfully accepted, SSgt.
I respectfully counter as such,
You are correct, the .308 can kill at 700-900 yards if the shot is perfect but ,really now, a newbie to hunting making a perfect shot at that distance?
I am no reloader, sniper or even an expert shooter but having also hunted with the .308 for almost 30 years(2 Remington's and a Parker Hale) myself I know better than to suggest that you can make a clean kill on a deer at 700-900 yards and bears...forget it.
Someone new to hunting will have a hard time even spotting a Whitetail at 900 yards and then they'll have to range it correctly and then using a 4 ft plus hold over make the shot.
I also don't know of or have known of anyone new to hunting being a reloader much less a competent one. They'll most likely be using factory ammo and that will get you around 400-600 ft lbs at less than 900 fps at 900 yards. That's a long way down range to try and hold a bullet straight at that speed. These are all educated guesses, I don't have a ballistics chart and I can't imagine those of you with your skills really needs one.
I think we are both in agreement with more than we disagree on.
And by the way, Thank You for your Service to this Great Nation. It is an honor to have you here with us sharing your experience and opinions.

My post was really just a play off of TKleather suggestion that those distances should not be tried with Bears and Whitetails.
It should be noted that 1S1K-xpert, the original poster, never said he would shoot Deer and Bears at those ranges but instead said he needed the huge scope for shooting 700-900 yards at the range.

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JTapia, thank you for you kind words of welcome.

Once again... I wasn't answering a question regarding weather or not someone new to hunting should or should not take a kill shot at those extreme ranges. I was commenting on weather or not a .308 retained enough energy and velocity to kill at those ranges. The figures I gave in a previous post were for a factory load 168gn Winchester Ballistic Silvertip, not a match grade hand load. I do load my own rounds but I just happened to have a table laying here for that specific round. As far as your statement about me (or anyone with the kind of training I’ve had) not carrying a ballistic chart around… let me just say this… You will never meet ANYONE with my kind of training that doesn’t have a ballistic chart either in their pack or attached to their rifle. Mine’s attached to the scope.

Now, just to clear up any unclear statements I may have made…

ATTENTION ALL NEWBIES:

DO NOT fire your weapon at ANY animal outside of YOUR comfort range!!!!

I define “Comfort Range” as the maximum distance you can consistently and accurately put lead on target under field conditions, not from a bench rest at your local firing range.
If you are going to hunt from a stand... practice from a stand.
If you are going to hunt from a sitting position... practice from a sitting position.
and so on and so on.

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