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Location: AZ
Joined: 07/06/2004
Posts: 39
in need of serious help/opinions

for the last couple of years my grandparents have been losing about 80% or more of their calves, and now they have lost a dog to *something* and we want to get rid of it. we don't know very much about the animal(s ) that is doing this. what we do know is that it has a feline like track (no claw marks of any kind in the print), it's track is about 6 inches wide, it is taking animals in broad day-light, and the bodies are "vanishing" (except for the dog, i'll get to that in a bit) there is little or no blood, and there are no drag marks (even in the case of a very large deer), and afterward, there has been no smell detected (like rotting flesh or urine from marking territory). the deer was shot by a game warden because it was blind and they were going to take care of it the next day, but it was gone, and it wasn't in a spot where it could be seen from the road. the dog was a 5 year old husky, and she was basically gutted in the yard, not 5 feet from the house between 10:30 am and 2:30 pm, the other dogs that we still have outside (a rott and a trained blue tick) won't hardly come out of their houses now, where before they used to bark at everything (birds, bugs, everything), and they made no noise when the husky was being killed.

i'm very concerned about this, not only because of monetary and emotional losses, but because not more that 3 miles to the west is a grade school that has the playground back right up against the woods. the local wildlife officials know what is going on, and think that the people who are saying that it's a big cat, are crazy (there have been cougars caught on film and reported, and confirmed that they are cougars).

basically i want to know what y'all think it might be, and how to deal with it. Thanks so much,
alicia

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/21/2005
Posts: 242
in need of serious help/opinions

Sounds like a lion except for the case of the deer that was already dead,usually a cat wont feed on dead game unless it is starving.Are lions protected in your area?Might want to invest in a good trail cam so you can get the proof you need to persuade the F&G to remove it for you.Lions will often times carry away smaller kills to a high spot or tree before they feed,may also be taking it back to kittens.Lions kill dog often here in MT,along with house cats.Once a lion gets a taste for livestock and pets it will never stop killing them until it is dead.

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Location: AZ
Joined: 07/06/2004
Posts: 39
in need of serious help/opinions

that's the problem: the DNR refuses to admit that there are lions in the state. so are they protected by a federal law then? since i don't think the state has any laws about them.

someone has already caught it on a trail cam, and turned a copy in so that there would be an official record of the sighting, but for some reason they still won't do anything about it.

i was asking my grandfather if he had noticed anything else while he was checking on the farm, and he said he found a tree that it looked like a cat had used it as a scratching post....would that be consistent with lions? i've lived here for a long time, and until this started, 'yotes were the scariest things that we had to contend with, now you will be hard pressed to see or hear a coyote. the rest of the standard prey animals (deer, turkey, squirrels, rabbits) are gone/making themselves very scarce.

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/21/2005
Posts: 242
in need of serious help/opinions

yes cats mark thier territory with scratching trees,this tree would be a good spot to set about 8 BIG jaw traps around the base of it to get rid of those "Varmits" that are killing your livestock.When the state wont help the rancher either has to say goodbye to his private property or take matters into his own hand.We deal with crap like that here in Montana with the wolves.lions and cats every year,nobody gives a crap about the ranchers just not upsetting the eco-freaks.

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Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
in need of serious help/opinions

It doesn't exist. There aren't any cougar in that state, according to the DNR.
It has been caught on trail camera.
It has killed livestock.
It has killed pets.
The other 2 dogs are afraid.
The DNR has been notified.
The local wildlife officials have been notified.
Most all other game have left the area.
You fear for your own safety.
You fear for the safety of the children in the nearby grade school.

Something is wrong with this picture.
It seems to me there would, at the least, be some concern, by law enforcement, about the gutting of a dog, in the front yard.

Try contacting a local trapper. Tell him the same story. See if he would be willing to locate the problem. It could be that someone had an illegal pet(s) that got loose. A six inch track is a large cat.
If that is the case and the animal has found a feeding ground. He won't be going anywhere until the food runs out or it's caught or killed.

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/21/2005
Posts: 242
in need of serious help/opinions

If the species is not recogonized by the state agencies as a resident species then it is considered protected by the feds.,I doubt any trapper is going to be interested in removing a protected species from your land.i would take care of it myself if I were you,we have had several small children attacted by cats here in MT and at least one that I know of was carried of,from his sand box, and they only found pieces of him,I think he was 4 years old.Lions are moving across the country back to all thier old haunts and the Eco-freaks rush to thier rescue every time they start causing concern among the residents,its best to keep these things quiet or they may make sure that you have no way to protect your property and children,they always say its you fault for intruding on the animals home range.They dont have to deal with the problems these animals cause so its easy for them to say its the animals home,we are still at the top of the food chain,lets keep it that way. Thumbs up

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Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
in need of serious help/opinions

Nothing was said about removing. I believe, I said locate the problem.
Once the animals hold is located. You go from there.
Don't encourage anyone to break the law.
If the animal is an immediate threat. It can legally be dealt with. Thumbs up

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/21/2005
Posts: 242
in need of serious help/opinions

Dont be so sure,when you are dealing with a protected species and the Feds peoples safty and thier rights to defend thier private property take a back seat to thier Eco freak attitude.If you were in fear of your life and being threatened by any animal you have the right to kill it but just to prevent a possible threat or protect your livestock/pets you have no rights when it comes to a protected animal,I would try to get local newspapers and TV to do a story on it to draw public attention to the problem if they are unwilling to help you.If it is a cat they will never be able livetrap it,the only way to remove cats alive is to tree them with hounds and traqnqulize it,then they usually relocate the animal a short distance away and it returns in a week,they play that game with the grizz up here all the time and then they are amazed when it shows up at the same spot it was trapped,now they are trying to use Russian bear dogs to haze them out of an area where they have caused problems. Laugh

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Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: 10/28/2003
Posts: 1647
in need of serious help/opinions

Here is a link to a thread I think you will find VERY interesting considering your current problems:
http://www.trapperman.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000046

Look at the size of that cat!

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Location: AZ
Joined: 07/06/2004
Posts: 39
in need of serious help/opinions

OH. MY. GOD. that is huge.

and the rest of the reading really answered some questions, but i also have anohter one, i was told, or read somewhere they the ig cats are sight hunters,a dn don't have the best night vision, which sounds like BS to me, but do you all say?

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
in need of serious help/opinions
Quote:
If the species is not recogonized by the state agencies as a resident species then it is considered protected by the feds.,I doubt any trapper is going to be interested in removing a protected species from your land.

When a state doesn't acknowledge an animal, it doesn't mean it's protected by the feds. On the contrary, if a state says they found an animal under protection of the Endangered Species Act in the state, they WILL be under federal protection. You really should do some research before you fly off the handle, nevadahntr; or should I say NONYA Think

I'm assuming you are talking about Illinois, not Florida? The Mountain lion is not under federal protection(under the ESA), except in Florida. So if it's in Illinois, they won't have anything to say about it. The state may place it under protection anytime, even if there are no reports of an animal in the state. You need to check your state laws.

Most of the time states don't want to acknowledge these new species because of all the red tape involved with it. Them saying "It's not here" publicly doesn't mean most biologists wouldn't tell you off the record that something is really there. It's kind of their way of saying, "you deal with it as you must."

Again, check your state laws. I tried to access the IL DNR website to check, but couldn't.

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