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Critter's picture
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Location: Western Colorado
Joined: 03/26/2009
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Yes, I watched areas in Utah during the 60's and 70's almost get shot out of deer by people from your state of residence. They came in and shot any buck that moved. Now with the permits being higher every family has to decide if that is what they want to do for their vacation or hunts. I personally believe that a lot of the out of state hunters that I see now are better hunters for that very reason and have watched the size of the animals come back to where they should of been all along. I am not saying that all of the hunters were bad ones but there were enough of them. Another question for you is what are your ideas for states such as Nevada where most of the state is BLM and not National Forest or any other BLM property? What are you going to do when you are hunting a border area of BLM and National Forest. Let see you can have this tag for a $100.00 but step over the fence and it is now a $600.00 tag and you can not hunt it unless you have that tag but you can only have one tag in each state. Or do you want the same thing for any government land? Also how about Texas, now there is a state that is almost 90% privately owned. Should we set a set price on hunting there and tell the ranch owners that they are required to allow us access to hunt on their property and kill a government owned deer? I really don't think that you really want to open up this can of worms.

elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
Joined: 02/02/2009
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I'm with you Critter. I remember when I was a kid growing up in the 70's and early 80's the same things in Colorado. These guys would go and shoot every deer that got up and they would hang the bucks in the oakbrush and in the end come back and only take home the bigger ones. My father would even show the game warden back then and they would not do anything unless they seen them do it.

I also remember helping my mother and father clean up camps they would actually leave everything including dirty underwear. There is still huge pieces of old carpet that are over 25 years old still up there that they would just leave on the ground when they went home. And these guys were from all different states !

We wonder why we have these restrictions now, its because a lot of people just don't care !

Back to the tags we do not need big government telling our states what they have to charge and where we can hunt. I believe that we would get restricted even more than we already are and in the end there would be no more hunting. It's hard enough right now fighting off the anti's and the tree huggers to just hand everything over to the government. I feel this is definitely going in the wrong direction. Brick Wall,)

Right now here in Colorado "Club 20" is advertising on the radio, saying how ranchers, hunters, fishermen, and environmentalists are all working together to save the Dominguez and Escalante Canyons area. This is a bunch of bull because I know for a fact that the ranchers and hunters do not want anything to with this idea of turning all of these areas into wilderness. They want to take a lot more then most people even realize. Even part of the National Forest !!!

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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
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So what your saying is The state needs to use out of state f
elkkill06 wrote:
I'm with you Critter. I remember when I was a kid growing up in the 70's and early 80's the same things in Colorado. These guys would go and shoot every deer that got up and they would hang the bucks in the oakbrush and in the end come back and only take home the bigger ones. My father would even show the game warden back then and they would not do anything unless they seen them do it.

I also remember helping my mother and father clean up camps they would actually leave everything including dirty underwear. There is still huge pieces of old carpet that are over 25 years old still up there that they would just leave on the ground when they went home. And these guys were from all different states !

We wonder why we have these restrictions now, its because a lot of people just don't care !

Back to the tags we do not need big government telling our states what they have to charge and where we can hunt. I believe that we would get restricted even more than we already are and in the end there would be no more hunting. It's hard enough right now fighting off the anti's and the tree huggers to just hand everything over to the government. I feel this is definitely going in the wrong direction. Brick Wall,)

Right now here in Colorado "Club 20" is advertising on the radio, saying how ranchers, hunters, fishermen, and environmentalists are all working together to save the Dominguez and Escalante Canyons area. This is a bunch of bull because I know for a fact that the ranchers and hunters do not want anything to with this idea of turning all of these areas into wilderness. They want to take a lot more then most people even realize. Even part of the National Forest !!!

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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
Posts: 14
National Forest Hunting liense

So what your saying is The state needs to use out of state fees as a MANGMENT TOOL? By increasing these fees it will improve the size and quality of game herds. Second it will weed out the bad hunters.

Brings to mind my own brother who lived in Idaho. He bragged about the 7-8 deer he would kill each year. I knew several who did the same thing.

In 1993 my wife an I toured Alaska. I clearly remember going through a camp site area for fishing a run of salmon. The garbage these people left behind was appalling. It was evident that the native subsistence people left it there. Holes in the ground with rotting food and debris every where. No out of starters.

Some tool you just suggested.

Did I miss something or is this forum just for Colorado hunters, or maybe they have more back bone than others?
Dellori3

elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
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National Forest Hunting liense

dellori3, We need the out of state money, it helps our smaller communities every year. You have to remember that we as residents live hear year around, pay the taxes so that the roads and trails can be repaired by the county maintainers, because the NFS does not take care of the county roads. We spend money year around at our local sporting goods stores and our communities, we pay year around in our own states. The thing we are trying to tell you is big government is not about us little guys, they could care less about us. It is all about who has the most money, all these people who are trying to save the planet and belong to the big interest groups are telling us we need to make everything into wilderness ( BLM and National Forest ), close off all of our roads, they simply forget we all get old and can not see these places anymore when we can not walk. Just like you are complaining about the price of out of state tags. Just think if they closed everything off to us and you had to hire a guide with horses than how much more would it cost.

The National Forest is already trying to limit useage by telling you where you can and can't camp ,drive your fourwheel drive, ride your atv, even your bycycle. What really stinks is if you can ride your atv on a road then why can you not drive a fourwheel drive on the same road that has been there for that purpose for a 100 years and you still want them controlling your hunting ?

I do not think that this is a Colorado forum by any means. I do think that many people have given up or are afraid to speak out because we are not politically correct anymore. It has all come down to a lack of common sense.

I do understand your passion and that you think the prices should be less for an out of stater, I just feel you should be picking the state government or sending this stuff to the Division of Wildlife of each state or even your home state. Maybe even get them to implement a senior discount or even a veterans discount for defending our country.

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National Forest Hunting liense

I think if you check that the federal governmant has no right to control land in any states. The only right given them in the constitution is for office space in the different states.

I'm courious about your feelings concerning hunting in say Mass, Vermont, New York, ect. This is not the first time I've seen this discussion, last time it was started by a guy from San Diego. What neither of you seem to care about is how much land you can hunt in the state's with little or no nat. forrest. Both of you focus on hunting in only prime big game states. Why not just move to the state you'd really rather hunt in and your problem goes away?

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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
Posts: 14
National Forest Hunting liense

ACESS---From My point of view, each state has the right to administrate control over state lands. Same applies to the federal government. The problem is we as hunters are being "out gunned" by special interest who reside in Washington DC. That is where they do the lobbying work. That work involves writing the context of purposed legislation in the administration of federal land. Those same lobbyist work with staff of their favorite congressman to introduce legist ration containing the rules and rags of land use in National forest.
This is how restricted land use gets put on the books. I would suggest we need a very strong lobbyist to track our interest . Yes it is all about money.
Federal Law Trumps State law.

FEE'S--- If a State wants to charge 200% more for out of state hunters to hunt on STATE Lands, So Be It. But I say NO to that same fee being charged on FEDERAL Land. I don't believe any one should be classified as a second class or discriminated against in the use of Federal Land! It violates a number of constitution rights.

MOVE-- One This is not just about me. but several things come to mind. 1- All of my family is here. 2- If I moved it would leave California more debt. 3- Prop 13

dellori3

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Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
National Forest Hunting liense

I see your point but its a little more complicated then what is state land and what is federal land.
Youd probably be more successful petitioning the state then the feds in lowering out of state fees. There is a myriad of reasons why fees are what they are from state to state some state game Fish and parks dept. have more or less commonsense then the next but in their eyes they have reasons the fees are what they are and I believe thats where you should start if you were going to.

As for it being federal, what you dont mention is for alot of the year the game animals in about any federal park with hunting are living OFF that land at least part of the year and that means private land. Some rancher, farmer or what have you is feeding that animal part if not several months out of the year.
State agencies that charge the most very often have the best hunting and best harvest ratio, WHY? They got more money to put into their conservation programs and very often have private land owners willing to work with with them.

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Location: San Jose Ca
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Posts: 14
National Forest Hunting liense

Romey ; If I lived in the great state of Montana I would most likely feel the same as you. I am great full they use the money in conservation programs. I support that. What I don't agree with is the disproportional share out of state hunters pay. It is by nature a Hostile act. I don't know what to do about it as it is the states right. It is when you talk about Federal land, I am going to way in with my rights and opinions.
What could be helpful is each of us has a right to request a "Legal Opinion" from our States Attorney General office. Lets do that and see what they have to say on the issues.
dellori3

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Location: San Jose Ca
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Topday I sent the fallowing request to the State of California Attorney General.
It may take some time for a reply. will be interesting what his research turns up.
Dellori3

Dear Mr Jerry Brown
Need your leagal Oppinion on why out of state hunters are charged 200% more than resident(most western states) to hunt on/in national forest.
I want to have the nation Forest rangers control the hunting fees and regs. I feel it is hightly discrimanating the way it is now.
Please make your comments avaiable for a forum debate.
Sincerly
Delbert Crawford 408 269 5371

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