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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
Posts: 14
National Forest Hunting liense

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I am just plain new to this forum as of this minuet. I viewed the topics and decided this is as good as any place to start.
I want the federal goverment to adminastrate all hunting and fishing permits and fees. for all national forest. Here is why.

Out of State Hunting Fee’s

Today I received my application for out of state hunting. I was dismayed to see they had raised the fees again. One might say “this is the last straw” or “ I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore” or “ this is a clear case of discrimination”. All would be true and I feel it is time to do some thing about it!

It might best be explained why I feel this way if I explain who I am and what I do.
Native born in Caldwell, Idaho, I grew up in Kuna, Idaho and hunted and fished with my Uncles and My grandfather. This is my passion and my heritage. After serving in Military service in the Korean War I came home to my home state and the first thing I did was go deer hunting. I don’t recall what the license and tag cost were maybe $5.00 total?
It soon became apparent that there were not any jobs to be had in Idaho and I was forced to move out of state and seek employment elsewhere. Over the years (30 about) I continued to go back to Idaho for hunting. My son and family continue that passion.

The point is, in 30 years of hunting it has always been in the same place and on Federal land (Boise National Forest). It is my understanding that the U.S. Forest Service administrates federal land in the “Timber management and harvest” “Mining and “ Grazing rites”. I THINK IT IS TIME THEY TOOK OVER THE HUNTING AND FISHING TOO. The license fees for my son and I will exceed $1,400. The total trip will cost us over $3,000.

It is impossible for us to have any input in the decision making process. In that the commission meetings are impossible to attend. Further, we would have a minority disadvantage and be overruled.

A lot of hunters cannot afford the lopsided, discriminating fees to go hunting out of state and I feel this hurts the overall economy I general.

The defenders of this country have a right to demand fair treatment in their pursuit of the very principles they defended. They are entitled to equal rights to all Federal land in all of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I ask all Hunters and fisherman to come together and support equal access to federal land.
You may contact me in the sites provide I need your support as we go forward.

I give my permission to include this paper with any hunting application

Del Crawford

President, C&O Engineering
San Jose, CA
_________________
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elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
Joined: 02/02/2009
Posts: 1946
National Forest Hunting liense

dellori3, first of all thank you for defending our country and welcome to BGH ! Thumbs up I understand your frustration totally, but as for letting the federal government take control of our hunting and fishing as a whole, there is know way in HELL I would want them controlling the states wildlife.

Here in Colorado the National Forest Service and Bureau of Land Mangement is taking away our roads and taking areas with roads they say do not exist and turning it into wilderness areas (which as stated a wilderness is roadless) and pushing us all together in smaller areas. Trying to tell us where and how long we can camp in area, trading areas with special intrest groups, and working along side the Guide and Outfitters Assoc and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation to close areas to us regular guys. The areas we hunt are always over grazed with catlle and NFS does nothing because they received there money. Ranchers can ride there fourwheelers where we can not (not even to get out game), we have to play by there rules or we get fined. Why should these other groups be treated differently ? Becuase it is BIG government, at least with most of the Western states being sovereign they can keep the Federal Government out of it. My father is 60 years old this year and with the areas they keep closing roads he will never hunt them again with him not being able to walk like he used to. Be careful what you ask for ! Shame on You!

It does suck that your prices have gone up and it is harder for you to draw the tags for your areas. And I do feel with you defending our country you should be able to hunt your home state. Come hunt Colorado it is one of the least expensive for tags and they hand out lots of tags. Yes

Critter's picture
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National Forest Hunting liense

ElkKill I agree with you 1000%, I have seen it in so many areas where a swipe of a pen kills all access except for the outfitters that have horses. Just last year the White River National Forest closed down a access road through an area so that they could have a few acres of wilderness that hardly anybody will use. At least I have seen very few people in that area while I was on scouting trips or hunting it. Now it is closed to the common person and hunter. I saw a great hunting area in Utah for big bucks killed by the BLM by creating a Wilderness Study Area. You might even be familiar with it. It was the Delores Triangle that you had to access through Colorado off of Glade park. The access road was just North of the Glade Park store and ran clear down to the Colorado River. The last time that I was down there in 88 a rancher was coming out of the area on the only road. He had access through the locked gate but nobody else did. I am not sure if it is still that way but you could of fried an egg on top of my head that day I was so hot.

elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
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National Forest Hunting liense

Critter I remember it very well and the last time I was down in there was 88 also it is still very locked up to all of us. We use to trap that country all the time and hunt giant muledeer. The biggest typical muledeer I have ever seen was in what we call 28 Hole down there. Today they can still drive in there, run cows, and hunt. Mountain Island Ranch is in there all the time. The BLM says there is some kind of endangered dirt that can not be disturbed. WHATEVER !!! Brick Wall,)

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National Forest Hunting liense

Critter and elkkill06 have you stayed on top of what's going on right now with the new roadless plans? Here is an article trying to slow the plans down, but not to eliminate the roadless plans - it's to strengthen and make them totally roadless.
http://www.biggamehunt.net/node/28975
4.4 million public acres are in this new roadless plan. That's a huge amount of land!

According to the above article and others I've read, they claim most hunters and anglers are behind these wilderness/roadless plans. If you are not, then people need to speak up - NOW!

I live in the northwest corner and we've been battling folks from Boulder and the eastern slope for years. Every time we turn around they want to close off areas so that not even snowmachines can use them in the winter. I believe the people that live and work here should have a voice in how the public land is managed. The way I see it is the eastern slope wanting to keep the western slope as their playground. I don't care if they come here to hunt and play, but I sure do object to them telling me how the land should be managed and what we can do. Communities should have a voice in whether they accept the roadless plans.

Don't get me wrong, I feel we do need wilderness areas. I sure do enjoy the wilderness areas we have surrounding us. However unless I own horses or hire a guide with horses, I cannot access them very far. People with physical limitations cannot access them at all.

Sorry for venting!

elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
Joined: 02/02/2009
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National Forest Hunting liense

Cowgal I know all to well about this fight. My dad, my brother and I have all participated in trying to keep roads open and opening roads back up. The problem isn't them hearing our voices but the amount of money you have to fight them. Do not get me wrong we still need to let them here our voices, but people talk all the time, it is getting them all together at once that is so hard to get done. My dad was one of the ones to help get South Canyon on the Bookcliffs back open again. Everybody needs to vent so people know what is happening.

And I DO NOT believe it is the hunters and anglers wanting these projects to be done, but the special interest groups wanting it done.

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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
Posts: 14
Re: National Forest Hunting liense
dellori3 wrote:
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Thanks all; I agree that access is a big problem. Your comments and mine will be food for fodder in the "White Paper " I am drafting for distribution to all interested parties and members of congress. The point is I am trying to point out the need for equality in the use of our National Forest.
Access for one user group without equal access to others is a pure form of discrimination! The same applies to user fees that are levied on out of state hunters and Fisherman! That access should be equal to all ;parties. The key word is "National"! Yes we need wilderness areas, but there must be a limit as to how much. It really gets to me when some one in Washington decides what to do with my interest based on his or her non interest.

On person note, thanks for the invitation to come to Colorado hunting, the most compelling reason I can not , is I have spent 35 years in one area and the knowledge of that is priceless. Besides the grand kids depend on Grandpa to come up with a game plan for the day and the next day and the next.

Keep the comments coming I will get some text in the draft about access.
Del

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National Forest Hunting liense

Do you really want the same people that are running this country to try and run any and all of the access and hunting in each state? Unless you have a couple of hundred million dollars to dump into some lobbiest pockets to get your congress man along with the rest of them to follow your lead it will never happen. After seeing what the forest service and BLM have done to hinder access to areas you would end up with a lot less hunting areas and the cost would go through the roof of where you could hunt. Just look at the post office. They are a arm of the federal government and they raise rates when ever they decide that they want to. How would the forest service be any different? Lets see, we need more money so lets just raise the hunting license, the hunters will pay it if they want to hunt. I hunt 5 different states during the year and yes I put out a lot of money to do so but that is up to me to decide what I am going to spend.

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Location: San Jose Ca
Joined: 06/21/2009
Posts: 14
National Forest Hunting liense

Critter; What I am trying to do is come up with a written mandate for congress on what we as hunters want in our national Forest ( not State lands). Yes we will need a lobbyist to write the bill. (you don't think the congress person does it do you?) and yes it will cost money . That's just the way it is. If we stand pat and not fight guest what, other interest will and have, lobby congress for what you as a hunter get to do. That's about where we are now. We find ourselves doing damage control in order to get back concessions.

You mention 5 states Wouldn't you like to have a National hunting lic.(asuming you hunt in a National forest?) to cover all 5?
I think most of are not able to even dream of that. We struggle to come up with the funds to make one out of state. I am sure the little woman is going to put in some demands also. There was a time where I save all year and she got what was left over. (Keep her happy). She feels she is getting the short end now.
Your wrong about the PO. There rate increase is directly tied to the cost of crude Just Like every thing else. Think about it.
I want us all to have a reasonable access to the National Forest. Don't take anything personal as we wade through this
Thanks
Del

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Location: Fruita Colorado
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National Forest Hunting liense

I'm with you Critter, I THINK THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA ! Shame on You! The states need to be able to control what is in each state not the federal government. They have know idea how to take care of each state seperately. Each state is ran differently when it comes to the animals, they can't all be ran the same. Think about this before you go to far ! It has nothing to do with the NFS when it comes to the price of tags and how many animals can be taken in an area. It has to do with biology not botany. The NFS takes care of the land not the animals.

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Location: San Jose Ca
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National Forest Hunting liense
elkkill06 wrote:
I'm with you Critter, I THINK THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA ! Shame on You! The states need to be able to control what is in each state not the federal government. They have know idea how to take care of each state seperately. Each state is ran differently when it comes to the animals, they can't all be ran the same. Think about this before you go to far ! It has nothing to do with the NFS when it comes to the price of tags and how many animals can be taken in an area. It has to do with biology not botany. The NFS takes care of the land not the animals.

Gentlemen; let me ask you a direct question. Do yuu think it is fair to charge an out of state Hunter -fisherman 200% MORE than a resident to hunt or fish in a National forest?

Dellori3

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