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Location: Michigan
Joined: 12/20/2006
Posts: 13
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

My son and I were out at the range over the weekend. My son has a .50 cal hawkins and so do I. We were using pre-lubed tradition patches and firing .490 round balls. After firing 2 rounds each, we would clean and dry the bore. However, I noticed with my rifle the balls were getting harder and harder to ram down the barrell, despite cleaning the bore. I started adding a little T/C Butter Bore to the patch, this is when I noticed my accuracy go down the tubes. I fired 3 more rounds with poor accuracy, in fact I missed the target all together and saw the dust kick up where the round landed back near the end of the range. Our targets were 25-30 yards away. My son meanwhile did not use any Butter Bore on his patches and his accuracy held up. In addition, his rifle loaded easier than mine. I noticed he was being very liberal with the cleaning solvent on his patches when cleaning the bore. Perhaps I wasn't?

My question is, can Butter Bore reduce accuracy? And should I be more liberal with the cleaning solvent (on the patches) when cleaning the bore between rounds.

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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Joined: 05/03/2006
Posts: 100
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

I cannot answer your quesiton on bore butter. I shoot a 50 cal Flintlock Tennessee Mountain Rifle. My best accuracy is with a 495 round ball and and .015 patch. Because it is such a tight fit, I run a wet patch and a dry patch after every shot. My particular rifle is sensitive to the patch lube used, but not to the extent you are talking about.

If you are using a lot of bore butter, you may consider putting a dry patch between the powder and the patched ball to keep the bore butter from "contaminating" the powder charge.

If when treated with bore butter, the patched ball slides relatively easily down the bore, you may want to try a thicker patch.

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Location: IDAHO
Joined: 05/04/2007
Posts: 66
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Like rodney my GPR shoots best with the .495 ball and .015 patch combo,I use a 50/50 isoporyl alcohol and windshield washer fluid mix to swab between shots.1wet 1 dry.

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Location: Michigan
Joined: 12/20/2006
Posts: 13
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Hey fellas, thanks for the replies. I stand corrected we were using .495 round balls. (with .015 pre lubed patches).

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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Joined: 05/03/2006
Posts: 100
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Have you looked at your patches after the shot? I mean literally you go and pick up the patch and check it out. Make certain that there are no tears or holes in it.

What powder charge are you using? How consistant are you in the amount of pressure used to seat the ball against the powder charge?

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Joined: 07/19/2007
Posts: 10
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Hey ya'all, I use the .50 cal hawkins as well and love it. Took a 7 point buck this last season with it. All that I use is the plain round ball with pre-lube patch. I have taken it to the range once and sighted it in. When I was using it I never cleaned it between shots. I never had a problem with it missing. I don't think I answered your questions but I do use Pyrodex instead of black powder don't know if that makes much of a difference.

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Location: Central NY
Joined: 09/16/2003
Posts: 823
Re: To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)
tom333 wrote:
My son and I were out at the range over the weekend. My son has a .50 cal hawkins and so do I. We were using pre-lubed tradition patches and firing .490 round balls. After firing 2 rounds each, we would clean and dry the bore. However, I noticed with my rifle the balls were getting harder and harder to ram down the barrell, despite cleaning the bore. I started adding a little T/C Butter Bore to the patch, this is when I noticed my accuracy go down the tubes. I fired 3 more rounds with poor accuracy, in fact I missed the target all together and saw the dust kick up where the round landed back near the end of the range. Our targets were 25-30 yards away. My son meanwhile did not use any Butter Bore on his patches and his accuracy held up. In addition, his rifle loaded easier than mine. I noticed he was being very liberal with the cleaning solvent on his patches when cleaning the bore. Perhaps I wasn't?

My question is, can Butter Bore reduce accuracy? And should I be more liberal with the cleaning solvent (on the patches) when cleaning the bore between rounds.

Ok, I have been mulling this one over in my head for a while now and it still doest not make sence. No, Bore Butter will not reduce accuracy nor will it soak into the packed powder below it. In fact BB is good stuff for the ball and patch shooter. It lubricates the patch forming a tighter seal for increased accuracy and at the same time it helps to "season" the barrel.

Now seasoning of the barrel is something important for the ball and patch guys esp if they are shooting black powder. I see you use the term "cleaning solvent", what you do not want to do is use any kind of solvent that will remove the seasoning from your barrel (WWacker this would include your Isopro). A good all natural cleaner like soap and water or TC #13 Bore Cleaner is what I use. It may take a little more effort to get the barrel clean but it does not remove the "seasoning" A good seasoned barrel is like a seasoned cast iron fry pan, things dont stick to it. So a well seasoned barrel does not foul as quickly as a non seasoned barrel.

Now why the gun was harder to load and you lost accuracy and you were cleaning between shots?????????? I don't get it .

-What were you using for a cleaner and how were you using it?
-What kind of powder were you using?

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

One thing not mentioned here is to check the fit of the wedge pin. I had a TC "New Englander" that would somehow flatten the wedge pin after a few shots and throw the accuracy out the window, but never made it hard to load.
Other than that I cant see anything you described that you were doing or not doing that would cause the problem you described. I would quit using anything other than soapy water to clean your bore with.

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Location: Michigan
Joined: 12/20/2006
Posts: 13
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Hi thanks for the replies. For a cleaning solvent we were using TC Bore Cleaner and for powder we were using Triple 7. Between rounds I would soak a dry cleaning patch with the solvent and attach it to a cleaning jag and run it up and down the barrell, then turn the patch to the other side reattach and swipe a few more times. Then run a dry patch down and turn it around and do it again.

I wasn't putting my solvent on the patch, that I know (now). We're going to the range again this Saturday. I'll try using more solevent and see if this makes a difference. I think I just wasn't clean the bore out good enough between shots, and the barrell had fouled up more so than my son's. I'll report back ;)

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Location: Muskoka Ontario
Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 351
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

I have found if I use to much bore butter that acuracy would go out the window as well. I figured that mabe it made the patch to slick andit would sheer over the lands and act like a smooth bore. I switched to 4:1 water balistol mix soke the patches and let dry over night supper acuracy almost like a dry patch dosent fowel the bp realy easy clean up.
My 2 cents F.K.

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Location: Michigan
Joined: 12/20/2006
Posts: 13
To much lube on the patch? (.50 cal Hawkins Tradition)

Thank you fisher king.

I know I am a real newb, lol. Ok got that out of the way. I'm still having issues with this. Not so much with my accuracy anymore but with finding the right loading/cleaning combo.

As for loading my .50 Cal Hawkins (cap and prec.) this weekend I used only Traditions Oil Patches. I found the ball much harder to ram down the barrel this way. I was using Oil Patches with Butter Bore in the past - perhaps here is where my problem with accuracy was. (I had another issue too, but I address that in another topic.)

Now, this weekend I am going to return to the range again and my plan is to use dry .50 cal patches lubricate them with Butter Bore. Now, how does eveyrone fell about that?

(i'll be using .490 round balls and .015 dry patches)

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