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sabotloader's picture
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Mothers Day Testing @ the Farm

Headed to the farm this morning to run a couple of test projects.

First project was a continuation of the Super Powder testing. and the Second was to confirm FG's findings about shooting with Rain Gear on the muzzle of the gun, which I must tell you I did not really believe his test and I still not sold on my test - I will have to repeat the test.

Test One.... I was set to compare velocities and accuracy of the three powders being tested. Jim Shockey Gold Super Powder, Triple Seven-2f, and BH-209. I chose to use a Knight DISC Extreme 50 MHC for the test rifle, it was out on the counter so I took it. What I forgot was the trigger pull was way to soft for me and after shooting my normal 3# pull triggers get use to the 2.3-4# of the MHC did take some getting use. As usual the wind was blowing well at the farm, easily 7-10 mph right across the target - right to left. But, I can not control that so the shooting went on. Another thing that I now need to agree with Tom on, shooting a Leupold 3x9 Ultimate Slam with the reticule they use is kinda difficult on targets. The circle-dot combination they use really covers a bunch of the triangle bull... It is a great reticule for hunting but I would choose something different for target shooting. To start the testing off, i will start with a picture that I took last week of the Super Powder. Just for drill last week I opened the powder just see what might be happening, you all should remember the power was opened and tested last month also. I was disappointed in what I saw... but I guess it is just an illness that APP has....

 

This jug had been resealed after shooting last time. The extra bottle sealed had even been flipped over, installed in the lid and the lid screwed tightly to the bottle. But as you see - a lump was already forming. I put the lid back on and rolled the powder on the tail gate and the lump broke up very easily... Today when I got to the farm, I opened the bottle again and guess what...

 Another lump... I touched it with the volume measure and it broke up very easily. Also I saw that there were now two packages of dryer in the bottle - I had seen one on the original test but had not seen a second one until today. Here is my impression of the Super Powder. I firmly believe that this Super Powder is more lively than any of the older App powders. I was looking for some of my old information from the old days when i was shooting APP but I could not find anything. My first shot this morning with 100 grains of SP and a 250 grain Seer Gold Dot recorded 1881 fps and at that time I thought - that is darn good for an APP. The following shots stayed right in that range. I remember thinking wow! that might be right at T7 velocities. The second powder shot was T7 the first shot with T7 clocked 1931... and my faith in SP moved back down a notch - but really it should not have 1850+ fps is really not that bad for a 100 grains. The last powder shot was BH-209... Here is this morning target... One thing the target does not show. The only primer used was a Winchester T7 primer.

 

Keep a couple of things in mind... Shot #1 was from a clean bore with primer fouling only... Shots 2 & 3 laid right in there and the Super Powder scored a couple of more points with me. Also no sign of anything that might be thought of as a 'crud ring' Shooting T7-2f... shot #6 was totally my fault along with the very light trigger pull. That is why I took shot #7 with the T7, i wanted to prove to myself again the powder is accurate. Actually I think had I taken the extra shot with the Super Powder it would have been right in the group also. And yes... there was a hint of a 'crud ring' Bh-209 was the same as I expected in the accuracy department but not the velocity that I expected... but then a 250 grain bullet really does not make BH work that hard... it gets out of the barrel to quickly and does not allow the progressive burning powder to work as efficiently as it can. Again I have to take the blame for shot #8 - actually some of the blame needs to shared with the wind and trying to keep everything steady. Some day i should buy one of those fancy gun sleds that holds everything secure for you... them basically all you have to do is pull the trigger. The last test of the day was to check FG's thought that Rain Gear on the muzzle might effect POI. I often shoot with 'Rain Gear' on the muzzle - have for several years but have never really thought or worried about POI. This small test is not enough yet for me to draw a positive conclusion, i will have to repeat it again on another outing...

Rain Gear...

groovy mike's picture
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rain gear test ?

Thanks for the report on test number one, but tell me more about the rain gear test?  We want to know what happened!!!  Confused

Was the point of aim way off?

What sort of 'rain gear' did you use?  Black tape?  finger bandage? Something commercially made?

How did it work?  What was teh result? Why are you not convinced by the results of this test? What was the result?

sabotloader's picture
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Addressing Question

groovy mike wrote:

Thanks for the report on test number one, but tell me more about the rain gear test?  We want to know what happened!!!  Confused

Was the point of aim way off?

The POA was the same as all the rest of the shots, what changed was the POI (point of impact)

Quote:
What sort of 'rain gear' did you use?  Black tape?  finger bandage? Something commercially made?

I do use a commercial availbable Barrel Cot. Black tape has never held an interest for me, because I do not always hunt with the bore covered. I take the cover of and reinstall maybe several times in a days hunt.  The finger cots are just to fragile for me, especially in the weather conditions and environment I hunt in - brushy...

This is one of the products that I use...

http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/traditions-muzzleloading-rain-gear.aspx?a=56813

This is the stronger of the two...

http://www.bighornproducts.com/ultimateboreprotection.htm

Quote:
How did it work?

You just roll them on to the muzzle.

Quote:
  What was teh result?

The point of impact was lower on the target than the shots that were taken with an open barrel.

Quote:
 Why are you not convinced by the results of this test?

I ran that test at the end of the shooting and still am not convinced that it was a fair test.  I want to repeat the test to verifly.  I just do not feel the cover should cause a problem.  I believe the cover should be blown off the barrel prior to the bullet getting there and have no bearing on the POI.

One test for me doesn not make a conclusion - gotta try it again.

Quote:
 What was the result?

The 3 bullets shot with the cover on were lower on the target and opened the group spacing.  But again I am not going to make a conclusion at this time.

Besides it give me another reason to go shoot again.

 

groovy mike's picture
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thanks

thanks for the update and info.  Another reason to shoot sounds good to me!  Let us know how you make out

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Looks very nice!  You seem to

Looks very nice!  You seem to have covered all your bases, and were very thourough!

 

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Electrical Tape

Without being anywhere near as thorough as you've been, quite awhile back I was looking to see of covering the muzzle with electrical tape had any affect on group size or point of impact. With my muzzleloader and chosen load I never could find any significant difference in either.  Since then, it's been rare that I leave the tent or truck without the muzzle covered, regardless of the season or weather.  Never could justify buying manufactured muzzle covers - the tape has always worked & a $2 role will last forever.

I'm curious about the container of Tucks I noticed on the tail gate.  Are you using them for cleaning patches & if so how do they work?

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Bore Cover

Hal Fast wrote:

Without being anywhere near as thorough as you've been, quite awhile back I was looking to see of covering the muzzle with electrical tape had any affect on group size or point of impact. With my muzzleloader and chosen load I never could find any significant difference in either.  Since then, it's been rare that I leave the tent or truck without the muzzle covered, regardless of the season or weather.  Never could justify buying manufactured muzzle covers - the tape has always worked & a $2 role will last forever.

I did try the tape one time and just did not like dealing with especially when it came to re-taping while in the woods and with a very wet of snowy barrel, so I have gone to the rubber bore covers.  I, myself, am still not convinced that it should make a big difference in POI, but I do want to get a couple more testing sessions in.  Normally but not always if I am taking a very long shot and since you normally have a little more time in that situation - I often just roll the cover off.  Shots under a 100 yards really do not think it would be a big concern.

Quote:
I'm curious about the container of Tucks I noticed on the tail gate.  Are you using them for cleaning patches & if so how do they work?

I have often thought... those patches are the size - I wonder.... never have tried one though.  They are way to wet and expensive.... but the empty jars make an excellent air tight container for windex patches that I use at the range for patching.  Regular windex with ammonia really does a number cleaning T7 fouling from the bore and the ammonia, besides being a natural metal scrubber evaporaates quickly and carries water vapor with it.... So the tucks container... -> contains these...

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pics!

You know - thios post mak

groovy mike's picture
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lets try again - and again

groovy mike wrote:
You know - thios post mak

 

That was supposed to say that - you know this post makes a lot more sense now that I can see the photos!  It's funny.  At work I can post with no issues BUT I can't see photos in the threads.  At home I can see all the photos but my posts lose most of teh text that I type!

 

Go figure.

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Container

Thanks for the tip sabotloader & you're right; the container is just the right size.  Being kinda old school, my side locks have never been exposed to anything but black powder, soap/hot water & wonderlube.  I've got an inline however that will need some use & I'll have to add the Tucks container/Windex solution to the shooting kit. 

Now if I can only talk myself into using those damn plastic wrapped bullets!

sabotloader's picture
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plastic

Hal Fast wrote:

Thanks for the tip sabotloader & you're right; the container is just the right size.  Being kinda old school, my side locks have never been exposed to anything but black powder, soap/hot water & wonderlube.  I've got an inline however that will need some use & I'll have to add the Tucks container/Windex solution to the shooting kit. 

Now if I can only talk myself into using those damn plastic wrapped bullets!

 

AAHH! come on Hal you are never to old to learn or try new things... shoot I am old and I love to experiment... looky I found a good use for a tucks jar... You might find den plastic wrapped things aint dat bad...

And those windex patches will work very well for an occasional patch of a real BP barrel also...

 

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