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Don Fischer's picture
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mite-look here

mite,

I didn't get but a small photo on the top one. Take it first along with what your saying.

I'm even more convinced now that your looking at immaturity. That's not bad, that's normal. She's found something she really likes and is trying to figure out how to get it. Over a period of time and left to her own devices she'll quit trying plovers all together. After being introduced to birds and shown how to get them AND what pleases you, she won't go back to plovers or even "dicky" birds. Dicky birds being any off game bird.

I said she'll quit plovers over a period of time. That'll happen because the plover's will TEACH her she can't catch them. Pointing is not a natural instinct, it's a trait developed by man to suit his own need's. Hunting is the natural instinct,
born of the necessity to eat. She hasn't been taught yet how to make pointing work for her but soon enough you'll teach her and then the creaping will stop IF you do your job right, that's teach her how to get the bird on YOUR term's.

The second photo also show indecision. She want's to keep going but you told her "whoa". She's stopped and probally standing still but should be standing up unless, you whoa'ed her on a bird she was creeping up on, I don't know. If you did, don't whoa her on birds yet. I said "yet". That will come in time. Whoa is a command that should be taught away from birds and without distractions. "whoa" means one thing and one thing only; "stop and stand still!" If a young dog is constently "whoa'ed" in a situtation where it has to great a temptation to leave, sooner or later it'll do as it pleases, usually after it mature's and start's testing it's own wing's. Then you run the risk of yelling "whoa" at a dog chashing. You yell whoa because your sure the dog know's what you want but your getting excited and yelling louder because your once well mannered dog is disobeying you. The more excited you get while the dog is chasing, the harder it chases. Next comes the next mistake. The place orentated theory. The dog comes back, you drag it back over to the starting point, as you percieve it, shake it up some and scold it saying whoa.

Number of things wrong there. First the dog came to you, likely because you called it. What did you do? You grabbed it and dragged it somewhere else scolding it. Question. Are you trying to teach it not to come or fix a problem? If every time your mom called you she did something similar, how long befor you hide rather than come to mom? I'm using "you" here as a generic term, Please don't take that personnel.

The next thing that happens is that you start scolding the dog in the general area of where it started chasing. Does that mean you don't want the bird? Obviously the dog did not fully understand the command and you kept yelling it while the dog was having the time of it's life; mixed signals!

I've been thinking lately and believe that far to many people have a problem because they believe certain trait's to be instinct's. A canine has few natural instinct's; to hunt first- pup hit's the ground, mom's tears off the sac and chew's off the cord, gives it a good licking and then.........this minutes old pup with eyes closed goes looking for AND FINDS a teat the size of an eraser burried in hair. That is instinct. The next instinct is defence; I would caution you about appoaching any baby wild animal with mom around. Even a bird will often attack you in it's own way. The next instinct is to eat; born of the necisity to preserve it's own life. Finally the instinct to reproduce to preserve it's own species. Everything else we see in our dog's are trait's bred into and developed by man to use some of the dog's instincts to accomplish mans own needs or desires.

Thru training we develope the traits. We must or pure instinct's will take over and the dog's will have no other purpose than to lay on the couch and lick itself!

Again I may have gotten carried away, sorry. From what you've had to say, your doing well. From what I've seen, your dog is still a pup, she's desperately trying to grow up. Let her!!!!!!!! Learn to read what shrs telling you with her body and her attitude, she'll tell you when it's ready to move on and that doesn't sound like it's to far off.

Good luck,
Don

Don Fischer's picture
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mite-look here

mite,

Just noticed theres more pictures of her pointing. The first looks good. The second is a bad angle but,,,,look's like her tail and head is set lower. May be indession. Hard to tell fron that angle.

Many times a false pointer will look real good on a feather pile. Other times they're just soft. If she is soft in the second photo, at her age it's indession. For whatever reason, known only to her, she looks like she not sure what to do. Did you produce a bird there? maybe a cat of some other animal? Perhaps a bird that she had her first encounter with?

Nice looking dog. At one time there were a lot of them out here. Result of a guy with a nice Lewellyn type female that bred over and over to a midwest dog called "Aces King". Big name NSTRA dog. Lady was a "Blue Hen" and there were a slew of good setters around here.

Don

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mite-look here

Aces King could have come from King Kennels. Alot of famous Llewellins have ties from them but recently they've been on suspension with the FDSB because of Russian Llewellin Imports. I believe it has to do with Russian documentation. My pup has ties to King Kennels and she shares blood ties with Hank from Hunting with Hank. Since Llews are known for close working dogs alot of people are using them for shooting dog trails like NSTRA.

Actually I think I know what's going on in that video. Leaves. She likes to pounce on leaves. On windy days, she'll stand there like she's pointing/stalking waiting for leaves to get blown. It was not until yesterday that I noticed she was doing that then pounced on one. It's one of her favorite things to do.

The second photo she was running along then stopped dead. Tail slowly rose from normal six to nine o' clock. I walk around her then notice a dead pheasant someone had shot that day (blood was still fresh) on the side of the road. It was not until I picked up the bird did she break point. At this age, she pointing dead and finding scent which I don't mind. Her nose seems pretty good as I've seen her track scent across an entire field about 100 yards or more. She tracked a wounded duck that young hunter who didn't have a dog shot. It was able to fly again tho. I felt sad for the boy, I think the father made him search for it even after there was no hope of finding it w/o a dog.

She's young. I never put pressure on her when hunting or anything that has to do with birds. Only on yard work. I can tell she gets frustrated at times and don't want to train. Then she becomes biddable and do as she's told and I will call it a day. With training, I never stop until she does what I want twice. Stuff that she knows like heel then woah, walk 20' around her, then come, then heel again. Then I'll mix it up. Heel and woah no come. Woah and come, etc. Make sure she knows the command and not going by rote.

Don Fischer's picture
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mite-look here

Leaves, that reminds me of Hannah when she was a pup. She would chase leaves or anything else that fluttered on the ground. Then pounce on them, grab them and shake them, then let them go and start all over again. Much later, one of her pups, "Goose", would run around like a mad man with sage brush branches and shake them at the other pups. There were eight in that litter and Goose would get chased by every one at the same time until he'd stop and shake it at them. Had one bad pup in that litter, "Sis", for some reason she was shy to the day she was sold. Sold her as a pet.

You'll never regret giving your pup this time to grow up!

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