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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
Minimum Elk Cartridge

That is exactly why I don't read hunting magazines. I get my informational assistance from boards like this, and from books. As for these super-accurate whizzbangs that shoot -1 inch groups, what the writer doesn't talk about is the 3 and 4 inch groups their whizzbang also shot during that session.

Location: Utah
Joined: 02/24/2003
Posts: 596
Minimum Elk Cartridge

Fuzzy - Well you certainly have the right apporach to this subject. We agree that porper bullet construction for the cartridge you are shooting is very important to elk hunting as opposed to deer where its not as critical. But whats central to our spin off of the original post is, is there a 150 gr factory loaded 270 round that is better than marginal at cleanly taking a big bull elk? I say a BIG bull elk because you have to be prepared for a "worst case scenario" if you will.

Its obvious you feel there are. I feel there "may" be but I'm not convinced at this point. My experience tells me that the 150 gr bullets, up until 3 years ago, tend to but not always break up when hitting the shoulder of a bull. That bull can run off a ways before he expires. Seen em go more than a mile. A well placed shot will very often take a bull down very fast but again theres always that maybe.

With any round theres always a chance for failure and poor shots occur with any round. My personal feelings are that 150 grs is just a little on the light side and why you see varying results from hunter to hunter. It's like Chevy (cause Ford would never have a problem Big smile ) recalling a part on thier trucks. Most of the trucks that carry this part they recall never fail and you get a lot of people asking, "why did they recall that I never had a problem?" When a 150 gr bullet fails (breaks apart) its rare compared to how often it succeeds. Bear attacks happen but how many of us have actually been attacked. Its a rare thing but I feel it happens enough to leave out the 270 when talking elk. Cause the first time it happens to you it will be devestating to you. If its a big bull it'll make you down right sick. Elk are very tough resiliant critters and they absorb a lot of punishment sometimes before going down.

I personally just feel the 150gr bullets I've seen are not reliable enough I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Happy huntin!

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Minimum Elk Cartridge

Rather_be - Thanks I hope all my hunts are happy ones.

When I go out after elk I'm looking to have a good hunt and put some meat in the freezer. The 270 is my favorite round in the field, although it is not my primary hunting round. I more often than not grabbed for the 30-06 with 165's or 180's. I have since replaced the '06 with a 300wsm.

I agree totally with you on the larger trophy sized elk. These are huge animals that have a tenacity to survive. That should be respected. These huge monarchs are few and far between and I have yet to see one in my sights that I just had to have on my wall. Besides it's a whole bunch of work getting one of those big boys out of the woods. I rather prefer the eating size and the 270 is plenty of gun for them, with proper bullet construction. If I was out after one of the monsters I would, most certainly, not have a 270 with me. It would definitely be the 300wsm with 180's or 200's of premium quality construction.

I wonder, sometime, when I'm reading these threads if some of these hunters have ever seen one of these big elk. We get some of these big boy out in the local pastures feeding with the cattle during the summer months. Believe me they are huge.

Happy huntin' back at ya.

I understand your point on the 150's out of a 270win. Are you familiar with the Trophy Bonded Bear Claws or the Accubonds from Nosler. They both run at 140gr and both would make an elk wished he'd stayed home.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
Minimum Elk Cartridge

I would have figured the long 200s would be better from a 300 Winchester Magnum than a 300 WSM. How did you get them to work? What did you do?

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

I wouldn't be able to say whether the 300wm can throw the 200's better than the 300wsm. I ended up using the loads out of the Nosler Fifth Edition manual.

I haven't cronographed any of the loads, so I have no idea what actual MV is. According to the figures in the manual. With H4831 I'm getting 18fps less velocity than the 300wm, with 2.5gr less powder. With RL 22 I'm getting 16fps less velocity than the 300wm, with 5.5gr less powder. I can't physically distinguish any difference between the two powders as far as performance. One thing that does assist the 300wsm loadings is they can be loaded to higher pressure. I also seated the 200gr Accubonds .07 from the lands. I don't usually go by manual seating depth. I seat according to how well it fits to the throat. Full length resizing, brass trimmed to 1.92 and winchester magnum primers. As far as the powder charge, I was able to pack a lot of powder.

I going to try the H1000 and see where it goes. I should be able to get better perfomance with less pressure, but the powder will probably fill the case and some.

Last but not least. When I pulled the trigger, it kicked like a mule.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

With 160 grain bullets loaded to 3200 fps in my 7mm Remington Magnum, it kicks pretty good too, in short, it takes a fairly good-natured round and nudges it into the class where 20 shots will make your shoulder a bit tender. That's a max load, I believe, for a case with a capacity of 83.2 grains. The 300 Win. Mag has a bit larger of a case, its case capacity is about 90 grains, but I have noticed that the 7mm is usually more accurate with very stout loads, and and delivers the same performance on big game. I haven't dealt with the 300 WSM yet, not very many people around here use any of the newer rounds, although our range has a pretty big attendance, so, sooner or later. I'd watch those long bullets in the short mag case, I think they might cut into your powder column and prevent you from utilizing an optimum load.

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Location: Wa.
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

The only reason I loaded the 200's in the short case was because of the Accubond. A 200gr hunting bullet with a BC of .588. I had to try them. The 180's would probably be a better choice. Although the 200's fly real flat for 300 yds.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

It can be fun going match-for-match with different loads. Since I primarily load the 7mm, I don't have much experience with .30s, but long bullets can be tough to wring optimum performance out of. With 175 grain bullets, I can still get about 3078 fps, but regardless of what powder I use, the 195 grain bullet is far less ambitious.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

There seems to be a trend happening with elk hunters around this area. There are a lot more 300 weatherby's and the 300 rum is making a big appearance. With fewer 30-06's, 7mag's & 300wm's.

I was talking to a hunter at the gunsmith's shop this afternoon. He brought in a brand new, out of the box 300rum to have the trigger let down to 3.5 lbs. I asked him if that was the gun he was planning to take to Alaska next year. "Nope", he said. "This ones for around here. Last year I hit a black bear 3 times with a 30-06 and my partner had to bring him down with his 300rum. Another partner uses a 300 weatherby and brought an elk down with one shot at 500 yds, but I'm going with the 300rum."

I know for a fact that the three shots from the 30-06, at the bear, were gut shots. I don't think the 300rum is going to make a bit of difference for him. As far as the 500 yd one shot kill on the big bull from a 300 weatherby. Well, I don't know what to think. I don't know the guy that pulled the trigger. I wonder if they know how far 500 yds is.

I'm thinking that marksmanship has everything to do with this particular situation. Not neccessarily cartridge or bullet choice.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
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Minimum Elk Cartridge

Well, if your shot hits outside the kill zone, it doesn't matter what round you're using. You may or may not recover the animal. I dread, I absolutely dread, going to BassProShops or places like it anymore, because all I ever hear about at the gun counter is endless blabbering about rifles for 400 yard+ shooting at deer and elk. The farthest I will shoot at an animal is 300 yards. Period. I've also had people tell me a 30-06 is not strong enough for elk, or they won't hunt even deer with it because it doesn't shoot flat enough. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a difference of a couple of inches (between a 30-06 and a 300 Win. Mag), isn't really so significant. I've even had people try to tell me a Big 7 is too small for elk. A 7mm Rem. Mag and a 300 Win. Mag perform almost identically on big game. I guess that doesn't matter.

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