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Location: Denver, Colorado
Joined: 03/07/2004
Posts: 57
Minimum Elk Cartridge

thanks fuzzybear. I think too many people throw around the word unethical.

Location: Utah
Joined: 02/24/2003
Posts: 596
Minimum Elk Cartridge
reconabe wrote:
thanks fuzzybear. I think too many people throw around the word unethical.

Thats true ethics has nothing to do with the "minimun elk cartridge." It really doesn't matter if wounded elk are running around the mountain, no big deal. It has to do wtih what you feel like buying, right?

Fuzzybear. Although I've never tried the accubond my experience tells me that 140 grs. has a tendancy (that means not always) to break-up on heavy bone. In my life I've seen a half dozen or so bulls run a mile or more on a busted wheel. If you hit a bull in the shoulder and your bullet breaks apart you'll be wishing you brought a mans tool to do a mans job. I don't like the 270 cause the max factory load is 150 grs. You're right about the energy though, they got enough of that.

At least you give good reason why you believe in the 270 and not just cause you don't feel like getting a new rifle. We can use more of your type in the woods fuzzy and less of the other.

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Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Minimum Elk Cartridge

I was one of those die hard 30-06, Partition users

There seems to be a trend in hunting bullet design in the last few years.

For example:
The bonded Grand Slams and the Bonded Bear Claws are so successful that they have carried the process a step further. They are incorporating the design feature of the bonded core bullets, using heavier tapered jackets along with the aero dynamic design of target bullets. The result is a bullet that is longer per diameter ie greater sectional density, per weight, better stability and a higher BC which allows it to retain higher energy at longer ranges. I don't know why they didn't do this 50 yrs ago.

With the longer bullets there is of course the situation of seating the bullet. They will take up more of the powder space. I have tried several of the new design and have found that the worst thing that happened is I get a better load density.

I agree with one thing about using smaller diameter bullets. It's not a good idea unless they have a good solid construction and the ability to retain forward momentum with out breaking up.

Choose wisely.

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Location: Denver, Colorado
Joined: 03/07/2004
Posts: 57
Minimum Elk Cartridge

I came to this website to ask a genuine question and receive impartial advice. Not to hear some raging emotion from someone. If you have advice great, I will listen, but not all of us have the money to run out and buy a new firearm whenever our hearts desire. Now if my equipment isnt good enough for you, fine, say your peace. Your opinion is noted, but there is enough opposing opinion with regards to the 270 getting the job done that I know that I am not being unethical hunting with it. I shoot the rifle well and I know I can put the shot where it needs to be. Thats that.

Location: Utah
Joined: 02/24/2003
Posts: 596
Minimum Elk Cartridge

No raging emotion just the blunt truth. As I said before if you feel using a 270 is ethical then use it. But don't do it just because you don't feel like buying a new rifle. I mean whats next? You find out the ammo you should use is more expensive so you buy cheaper ammo cause you don't have the money? Money is always an issue but if you can't afford the right equipment then you can't play the game, that is ethical when it comes to hunting.

My entire point was that the question of minimum elk cartridge is an ethical issue, not a monetary one. We have too many people ( I don't know you and not pointing the finger, just going off of your words) that don't care about the big picture and that is detremental to hunting itself. There are too many hillbilly's out there who shoot at anything they see, wound animals and give us all a bad rap.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Minimum Elk Cartridge

I'd like to get back to the topic of this thread.

There are new powders, bullet styles and types, cartridges and combinations of all of the above developed on a regular basis. Some of them work for the intended purpose and some serve no purpose except to duplicate an already existing development.

If the only round I owned was a 270win and there were no bullets developed for large elk sized game I wouldn't be able to hunt critters of that size, period. The development of bullets with better construction has allowed the smaller diameter rounds to be used for these larger critters without doubt or that unsure feeling that I don't have enough bullet. There are limits to any load, but if the load and the bullet meet the range for the critter on the agenda use it, if you feel comfortable that it will do the job. If there is any doubt, don't use it. Never use a round just because it's the only thing you have!

There are three things I enjoy. Loading and shooting for target and hunting, my work and sex, but not neccessarily in that order. If I have a load that I would like to use on a hunt I research it. Call the company that developed the component and start working with it. If it meets the need, the ability to do the job at hand, it's a keeper.

With every rifle and caliber that I have owned over the last several years, I have tried a variety of loads to see what they are capable of with the components that are available at the time.

Example:
Many of these wizzbang cartridges that are on the market nowadays were wildcats that never met the criteria needed until the development of the slower powders that are available at present. With the development of the bullets we have available in combination, these guns could be used for game that we would never have attempted 20 yrs ago.

The times they are a changin'.

Location: Utah
Joined: 02/24/2003
Posts: 596
Minimum Elk Cartridge

Well I agree with one thing, times are changing. Hunters and the sport of hunting are under a micorscope more than ever. Shouldn't we put ourselves well into the black and stay out of the grey?

What I mean is this. With all the great cartridges why use an OK one? I think we owe it to the game we hunt to use optimal killing power. There is a reason why so many question the 270. How many people question the 30-06?

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Minimum Elk Cartridge

I think your absolutely right. We need to be responsible on our choice of cartridge for the game at hand. What I would like to stress is. If a hunter wants to use, for instance, a 270. There are bullets available that are designed for penetration in large game. Use a bullet that is designed for that purpose, not one that happens to be available.

The same could be said for a 30-06 or something in the 300 mags. A light jacketed 150gr out of a 300 mag is also a poor choice for elk, but there are hunters that use them with the thinking that they go faster or they are more accurate in their rifle, so they use them in place of a bullet that was designed for the purpose.

This is an interesting thread. I'll check back later. The gal wants to take me out for some dinner.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
Minimum Elk Cartridge

A 150 grain bullet from a 7mm Remington Magnum will probably do the job on an elk, as I've read on some sites dedicated to the round. The 154 grain bullet made by Hornady is an excellent choice for cow elk, and would work on bulls. But the 160, 162, and 165 grain bullets are the most suitable for an animal as large as an elk. The function, and perform, just about as well as a 180-190 grain bullet fired from a 300 Winchester Magnum, those bullet weights being the correct weights for elk hunting with a .30 caliber weapon. 150 grain .30s are made to expand fast- too fast for heavily-built animals like elk and moose.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Minimum Elk Cartridge

That was the best dinner I've had all day.

So how does information on what is the proper choice of components to use on the game at hand in any particular caliber get to the hunter. I've read articles in outdoor and hunting magazines that do nothing but hype up some component or product that the author is paid to promote. I look at most of these articules as deceptive misleadings. These gun writers don't promote whats best. they promote what the highest bidder is trying to sell. One of the bullet manufacturers I called about information on a new component they were producing didn't volunteer any information. It was like talking to a 3 year old. I had to ask the right questions. So where does the responsibility lay for getting the information to the hunter that the hunter needs. If I pull the trigger it is my responsibility to be informed. If I screw it up it is my responsibility. If the manufacturers don't want to inform the hunting public, who pays. I do, the hunting public.

It's simple, when elk hunting. Use elk bullets.

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