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Location: Northern California
Joined: 03/29/2009
Posts: 11
my mod 70 25 wssm

I shoot a Winchester Mod. 70 25 Super Short Magnum. Its quitee accurate out to about 800 yards. I use a 115 grain Nosler Partitian bullet with 42.4 grains of 4320 powder. I shoot a .35 @ 100 yards. It used to be an all black rifle but I got bored with it so I descided to give it a touch up paint job.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 04/15/2009
Posts: 7
Some can

I see a lot say it's unethical to talk shots at game over 300 yards. What about the guys that can't shoot even 50yds without wounding? No one seems to want to talk about them guys. Just say that nobody can make ethical shots over 300 yds. Everyone has different skill levels and not everytime in the woods is going to be high winds and brush everywhere. With todays knowledge of firearms and equipment is well with in reason for a well practiced shooter to be capable of hitting vitals 95% of the time up to 500yds. Everyone is in the 5% too. Everyone here has missed or wounded no matter the range. And if you say you haven't then you haven't hunted as much game as the rest of us.

500yds no wind Elk in the open broadside, hunter using a 300 RUM 180 gr bullet. The hunter crosshairs don't even have to come out of the body for elevation to make that shot. I have talked alot of men through long range shots for their first elk kills after watching him shoot and checking rifle zero. It has been done, it can be done, and it can be done with someone that don't have the practical knowledge if they have a coach right there. I know your rolling your eyes saying bs. Stand back and watch. Sometimes at timberline 400 to 500yds is as close as your gonna get to your trophy it's not a matter of stalking then it becomes a matter of shooting. That's where some accomplished men leave others in pondering the ultimate question, were they luck? No they just practice those shots more.

Here's my other question for all the non believers. Why did they make a 300 RUM or a 7mm STW? It sure wasn't for creating ft lbs for shooting close range shots. If that was true why not just hunt with a 375 h&h or a 460 weatherby? And you don't need a super mag to kill at 500yds either just a point.

Silouette shooters for one would have no problem telling you not only can it be done but most times it can be done without a rest. I'm not saying everyone should do this in the field but it does happen.

We all set at benches shooting groups all the time, seeing just how accurate our loads and rifles are. I strongly believe that's all a bench is good for. True hunting marksmen practice off the bench after you have found the data you needed about your equipment.

There's one word in my dictionary I stratched out. The word CAN'T.

I grew up in western colorado where things grow distance fast.

After saying all this about long range shooting I'm also a bowhunter too. Two things excite me in hunting. A bull elk breathing in your face at close range and a big mule deer buck that thought he ran out of your range to look back.

What one man can do another can do. Just might take some practice.

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Location: Mobile County, Alabama
Joined: 09/09/2007
Posts: 310
Long Range Hunting

Speaking for myself, I think the issue isn't whether or not a long range shot should be made but who is making it. If the hunter has the skill and gear to make the shot and make it clean then I have no problem with it. I still believe that most hunters lack serious shooting knowledge and skills and the game we hunt deserve to be hunted in a sportsman like manner.

What a lot of folks don't understand is that a 1 inch mistake at 100 yards is a 5 inch mistake at 500 yards. Also, a lot of hunters think that by getting a super duper mega magnum the extra performance will make up for their lacking in skill.

You do make a good point, there are many (too many IMHO) hunters who can't hit the broadside of a barn with a cannon and little attention gets paid to them. Unfortunately, the states don't give shooting test like they do driving test.

Bud
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Location: Montana
Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 64
Long Range Hunting

Jcalhoun, I agree that some would need the shooting test. I cater to sne long range shooter and the ones who know the science and have the proper equipment can shoot better at 500 yards than most can at 100. it is common to see 3 inch 500 yard groups with these hunters. when I talk to a real long range shooter it is very clear by the equipment they use and your right, a 300 super duper mag. with a $49 milldot scope just aint the proper equipment.

CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3587
Long Range Hunting

These last posts really bring home one of the greatest problems facing hunting today. No, not long distance shooting, but how some hunters want to impose their limitation, their choice of hunting methods and their so-called "ethics" on all hunters.

You can't shoot beyond 200 yards - great, then don't do it, but don't criticize the hunter that can.

Believe that bow hunting is the best hunting - great, but don't criticize the rifle or crossbow hunter.

Think that a frontal shot is unethical - great, then don't take it, but don't critcize the hunter who can make that shot and takes it.

We just need to remember that there are all different types of hunters and hunting and we need to stick together and not fight amont ourselves.

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Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Long Range Hunting

CVC,

Hunters have been arguing, fighting, bragging and debating since flintlocks took over from wheel-locks. I heard you were there so you know. I don't remember you from them days myself but I forget a lot now. neener!

CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3587
Long Range Hunting

Ah, but if my feeble memory serves me correctly, the main point I made to George Washington, is that never before did hunters have such a unfied anti-hunting machine whose sole purpose it is to ban all hunting and guns for that matter.

So, while healthy debate and even one upmanship is good, the debate today, among even hunters, centers around stopping the other guys because they don't meet some arbritrary standard. This is not good.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
Long Range Hunting

I had a thought long ago, when I was changin Methusalahs diaper, that if I could throw a stone at a bunny and hit it at 50 paces then I should throw away. But then I thought, well what if that bunny moved before I had completed the throw and all I did was injure it? Same goes for these rediculous long range "shooters" that think just because they have that handy dandy super duper magnum rifle that that animal wont take a step while they are completing the trigger pull!! Its not just a matter of skill but also timing. No way can you tell that a feeding Elk is going to take a step right when you pull that trigger and at 500+ yards that step is a MIGHTY big one. THATS the point. There is a HUGE difference between shooting at paper and shooting at a live animal with a mind of its own. There is always Murphy's law to concider as well. By taking your time and getting into a reasonable range, with skill and persistance, you are more likely to take a fine animal for table fare. To me thats hunting. And to anyone that thinks Im just arguing and being "anti hunter" then I guess thats your opinion as well. Im FAR from anti hunter but I am most DEFINATLY against animal cruelty and gut shooting a majestic creature for it to go off, suffer, and eventually die from malnutrition or infection just because some retarded moron thought he could make that impossible shot that he saw some other retard do on a TV show that was most likely done with a drugged animal is just WRONG. If you dont like this opinion fine and dandy. But dont try to heap those of us that are totally against the stupidity of morons out there shooting at live animals at 600 to 1000 meters and think they can hit them 99% of the time. My personal opinion is that if you cant make a shot 100% of the damn time in HUNTING situations then do NOT take it. PERIOD. Thats not anti hunter...thats anti stupidity!!

CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3587
Long Range Hunting

Cam, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but no need to call people morons just because they differ in their opinion.

No one, no matter what situation, can make a shot 100% of the time. The pro's miss and so does everyone, even when making a chip shot.

based on your logic, no one should be allowed to bow hunt. A deer, even if relaxed can step forward, jump the string or just turn toward you by the time the arrow gets there, even at 20 yards.

I watch a show on tv and they consistently make long distance shots. They have the proper equipment, the practice and understand the variables that affect the shot and if the variables aren't right, then they don't take the shot.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
Long Range Hunting

Uhh CVC??? You believe everything you see on TV? I have a truck for sale and Im SURE its well worth a million bux!!! I know the show to which you are referring and I just wonder...How many poor creatures they gut shot and didnt kill before they got the "money shot" on film. Dude wake up and smell the coffee...#1 we werent discussing Archery we were discussing firearms. If Im shooting at 200 yards and that deer or elk takes a step just as Im completing trigger pull, Im STILL putting the bullet in the kill zone by sheer time it takes to get there.... Now....Add 300 yards to that and you just gutted that deer or elk because it took the bullet that little bit longer to travel. Simple logic. As far as your "variables" statement....I dont care if you are the best long range shooter on the planet (and I know most of them) you can NOT take into account what that animal is THINKING and GOING to do! Paper does not move!! Paper does not THINK!! You dont have that shooting bench out in the woods with you for a completely stable platform to fire from. This discussion is as old as hunting itself. Are there people out there that can make these shots? Of course. I have no problem at 1000 meters with my 300win mag. Am I going to attempt it in the field? Hell no. I have more respect for the animals that I am hunting and they well deserve a clean quick kill not a slow death caused by the guy who bought the video that that show you refered to sells and thinks he can do it now. I can teach a monkey how to shoot long range at the range. Its not difficult whatsoever. Shooting beyond 500+ in the field under uncontroled situations is another world. One that the average, even the above average hunters, should not be attempting no matter what video or TV show they watched! Oh and another thing. Just because they have a TV show on the air does NOT make them "pros" It makes them a marketable resource that the producers make money off of. Jackie Bushman was a damn tennis coach. He got the job because of his name. Fella couldnt hit the broad side of a barn from INSIDE! I know 3 guides that took him and his crew out and they ALL said the same thing. He's one of your beloved TV show "pros". LMAO@ pros. Funny stuff there. And also...Just because they "say" the shot was 800 yards doesnt make it the truth. You can make that camera make a 100 yard shot look like 10 miles! Now as far as your Archery statement goes, there are a lot of people that take a more risky shot than others and unfortunatly this is the nature of the beast. Sometimes deer jump the string and they make a poor value shot. But there isnt much of anything that can be done about that. Long range shooting in firearms is a CHOICE not the nature of the beast. Its normaly a person that is just too lazy to get close or doesnt possess the chops! Its that simple!

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