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Location: Denver, CO
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However you personally feel

However you personally feel about drug use is irrelevant.  If you do not believe that an individual has the right to willingly ingest anything he wants into his body, don't you dare call yourself a 'conservative'.

WesternHunter's picture
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LOL

Adam_R wrote:

However you personally feel about drug use is irrelevant.  If you do not believe that an individual has the right to willingly ingest anything he wants into his body, don't you dare call yourself a 'conservative'.

Ha ha, very funny!!  Don't even go there!

I'm a concervative with with strong libertarian views, but that does not mean I have to tolorate illicit drug abuse in my community.  Same hold true for misuse of alcohol too.  My family and my community also have the right to be protected from the irresponsibility that comes with such illicit abuse too.  On the other hand I agree that Americans should have the liberty to ingest or inhale whatever they want as long as it does not endanger my family, my community, or others around them.

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Location: Denver, CO
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The violent effects of drug

The violent effects of drug and alcohol abuse--such as domestic violence, robbery, homicide, etc.--should all be enforced under the laws which presently govern them.  It is not necessary to ban all the possible ingredients or causes of these problems.  If we did, we'd have no guns, no cars, no beer, etc.  Hell, we wouldn't even be allowed to form relationships because the government would see that as a possible future domestic violence problem.  This is a classic example of the government claiming its responsibility to protect us from things that may or may not actually happen (like the movie 'Minority Report').  This is in direct contrast to the innocent-until-proven-guilty rights that have existed since this republic was founded.

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true

Adam_R wrote:

The violent effects of drug and alcohol abuse--such as domestic violence, robbery, homicide, etc.--should all be enforced under the laws which presently govern them.  It is not necessary to ban all the possible ingredients or causes of these problems.  If we did, we'd have no guns, no cars, no beer, etc.  Hell, we wouldn't even be allowed to form relationships because the government would see that as a possible future domestic violence problem.  This is a classic example of the government claiming its responsibility to protect us from things that may or may not actually happen (like the movie 'Minority Report').  This is in direct contrast to the innocent-until-proven-guilty rights that have existed since this republic was founded.

 

All very true. I'm not arguing that. Good point about the movie "Minority Report", seeing that movie was a chilling reminder of where are country is likely headed when the technology is available.

I don't smoke pot and never have, but I'm willing to bet that it's probably easier and far less expensive to get very high quality pot right now.  I think once it's legalized that would all change. I don't know if that would be a good or bad thing?

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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legalize marijuana?

So why not legalize ALL drugs?  The question is whether it will improve society to legalize something that has been considered outside its standards and mores.  Will we be better off as a society if we shift our values in that direction?  If we legalized pot, would that indicate that we're raising our social standards or lowering them?  Say what you want about pot, but from my experience it doesn't exactly increase anyone's ambition or work ethic.  This brings me back to the point I made earlier...show me one example of a society that improved itself by increasing acceptance of recreational drug use.

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Location: Denver, CO
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improving society

expatriate wrote:

So why not legalize ALL drugs?  The question is whether it will improve society to legalize something that has been considered outside its standards and mores.  Will we be better off as a society if we shift our values in that direction?  If we legalized pot, would that indicate that we're raising our social standards or lowering them?  Say what you want about pot, but from my experience it doesn't exactly increase anyone's ambition or work ethic.  This brings me back to the point I made earlier...show me one example of a society that improved itself by increasing acceptance of recreational drug use.

I believe all drugs should be legalized.  It isn't a question of whether or not they will improve society, it is a question of freedom.  Do cigarettes improve society?  How about McDonald's cheeseburgers?  Riding motorcycles without helmets?  You are pushing the same argument that the left uses to take more of our freedoms away (including guns, btw), in the name of 'protecting' us.

Their theory is that if society is going to bear the burden of health care and recovery for people who make poor choices in life, then we ought to protect them from being able to make those choices.  My theory is the opposite: that people should be free to make their own choices, but society should not bear the burden of caring for them if they make the wrong choices.

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freedoms

Adam_R wrote:

expatriate wrote:

So why not legalize ALL drugs?  The question is whether it will improve society to legalize something that has been considered outside its standards and mores.  Will we be better off as a society if we shift our values in that direction?  If we legalized pot, would that indicate that we're raising our social standards or lowering them?  Say what you want about pot, but from my experience it doesn't exactly increase anyone's ambition or work ethic.  This brings me back to the point I made earlier...show me one example of a society that improved itself by increasing acceptance of recreational drug use.

I believe all drugs should be legalized.  It isn't a question of whether or not they will improve society, it is a question of freedom.  Do cigarettes improve society?  How about McDonald's cheeseburgers?  Riding motorcycles without helmets?  You are pushing the same argument that the left uses to take more of our freedoms away (including guns, btw), in the name of 'protecting' us.

Their theory is that if society is going to bear the burden of health care and recovery for people who make poor choices in life, then we ought to protect them from being able to make those choices.  My theory is the opposite: that people should be free to make their own choices, but society should not bear the burden of caring for them if they make the wrong choices.

You speak about as if it's always adults making sound clear choices, not usually the case.  Keep in mind that these are not always choices, and it's not always clear thinking adults who are making these choices, it is often (most times) children who get introduced to this stuff at a young age.  Ask any smoker when they began smoking, you'll find in 99.9% of the answers will be well before age 12.  Ask most addicts when they began using or drinking, the answer may surprise you at how young they were or how it was forced upon them.  Generally this influence comes from a child watching someone older make a bad choice.  I don't want my children's elementary school teachers influencing my kids in smoking pot.  I understand your argument about freedom, but where is your stance on Freedom when it comes to protecting society from the abusers or those who's choices directly affect our safety?  The same goes for gun issues too, there is a reason why some people are barred from owning them legally.

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Very well said.  As an adult,

Very well said.  As an adult, I can make an informed decision, and know how drugs, alcohol, smoking, or cheeseburgers will affect me.  However, 12 or 13 year olds are not capable, for the most part, of making informed decisions.  They do things on the spur of the moment, and do not hink of future implications.

It's already easy enough to get drugs in the schools, why should we make it even easier?  And, to the people who make the "Alcohol kills more than MJ" argument, I am a firm believer in the "2 wrongs don't make a right" attitude.  Just because one is worse than the other, does that mean we should legalize everything that is bad for us?

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Freedom and Responsibility

Interesting topic.

One thing stands out to me, regarding freedom and choices, with great freedom comes grave responsibility. Sadly most people, young and old alike, lack responsibility from what I've seen. While I would like it to be a matter of choice man has consistantly shown through past behavior that a certain percentage of them will be irresponsible and thus we have "lowest common denominator" syndrome.

I don't think that is going to change and the legalization of marijuana will be a mistake.

 

Biker

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agree

You make a great point Hiker.  It's all about freedom and responsibility.  You can't have one work without the other.  I wish more Americans though this way.

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