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Labs on the field.

Yesterday I was watching a competition on the Outdoor channel.

It was about 2 hunters and 1 dog flushing 6 birds within 20 minutes. I was amazed to see how these labs were flushing the birds out. And they seemed eager to please! There was one bird that was shot and escaped about 200 yards. It took the dog around 2 minutes to retrieve it, but he did.

Not only do these dogs have good looks, but they seem to be awesome on the field.

I think i'll end up getting one later down the road.

Just to add: there was a water spaniel as well. Man this dog was running around(super fast) at long distances. He was flushing away, but had too much energy for my taste. LOL, I don't think I would be able to keep up with such a dog.

In comparison the Lab may suit me well.

Thanks.

Don Fischer's picture
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Labs on the field.

Don't base a decission or seeing just a few dogs. Go see a bunch of them. There is a reason they showed that dog on TV and it was probally to entertain you! How entertained would you have been had the dog failed?

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Labs on the field.
Don Fischer wrote:
Don't base a decission or seeing just a few dogs. Go see a bunch of them. There is a reason they showed that dog on TV and it was probally to entertain you! How entertained would you have been had the dog failed?

I know, but from my obseravtions the spaniel was real hyper. Not to say the labs wernt. Still, I like how the labs were on the field.

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Labs on the field.

How many of either have you watched? Do you understand what you were watching? If you watched a "Riggins White Knight" without ever seeing a pointer go befor and having no idea what you were watching, you'd never concider a Pointer. The same could be said if you watched an "Amtrack" or "Super Chief" do what they did. By the way, "Amtrack" and "Super Chief" were Labradors!

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Location: Minnesota
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Labs on the field.

Don, did Amtrack and Super Chief point? I know that a few pointing lab lines go back to Super Chief.

My advise is to go and watch some hunt tests, get a feel how different dogs work. But I don't think you can go wrong with a lab! Thumbs up

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Labs on the field.

Not hardly. They were the crem da la crem of their time. If they go back to "Super Chief" they are not pointing labs, they are Labrador RETRIEVERS. There is no lab that will trace back to any foundation of any kind of pointing dog.

If someone has a lab that points, fine with me but to represent a lab as a pointer to someone looking to buy a pointer is,,,,,,,,,dishonest. You will not find a discription of a pointing lab in writting anywhere; you will find no standard of a pointing lab; you will find no registery listing a pointing lab. You will find a bunch of people that love their labs and desire to assign traits to them they have never possessed. You will find people raising labs they promote as "pointing labs". They can't show you a history of their dogs that have ever proven themselves as pointing dogs, they just say they are. I wonder if these breeders would give you back your money if the dog didn't point naturally? I doubt it, they weren't bred for it.

The worst part is that they represent the breed to be something it was never designed to be with absolutely no backgroung to prove it. I would wager that people hung up on them have no Idea what a pointing dog really does and if they ever watched more than a couple, they had no idea what they were looking at. Stop and think what these people are representing their dogs to be. They are retrievers without peer, they are flushing dogs that would be murdered in a run off with a springer and they are pointers that most any pointing breed would spit out for lunch. They are owned by people that love labs and are represented to the unknowing as being something they are not, theres good money in being that dishonest!!!!!!!!!!

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Labs on the field.

wow you got fired up real fast. I take it you have NEVER seen a pointing lab work. I take it you have never seen them compete against actual poiting breeds and win. Here is a Kennel that competes on a regular basis against actual pointing breeds and do quite well, http://www.shadowmountainlabs.com/
There are many FC dogs out there that given the chance to actually hunt they POINT the birds, that is a FACT, and I can give you actual FC dogs that do, and did in their day, here are just a few, FC Downtown Dusty Brown, FC AFC CFC CAFC Barracuda Blue MH and FC AFC Cuda’s Blue Ryder MH, FC AFC Rebel with a Cause, FC 2X CNAFC-CFC Ebonstar Lean Mac, FC AFC Hilltops Hayseed. That is just a few. The list can go on and on. I don't want to start a huge arguement on pointing labs. Just know this I do refund the money if a pup of mine wont point. And I have yet to refund anyones money, they all say that they point just as well as any other pointing dog they owned. And on top of it they RETRIEVE!!

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Labs on the field.

Alex,

I have gone to the site you posted. What I see are no certified pedigrees on any of their dogs. I'm sure they probally are registered dogs. There are few championships awarded by any registration authority, no recent ones. Their championships are from "off shoot trials" designed to let the guy down the block play without meeting stringent requirements. What I have seen in the ones I ran in and judged in is that there are really no standards of excellence. Dog's and handlers go out and play a game of killing birds where excellence doesn't really count. They do have one ot two canadian titles way back. The FC and CFC titles are for retrieving, not pointing. FC is a title bestowed on a field champion by the AKC. CFC is the same but from CKC. Neither recognize the lab as a pointing dog.

To get around that, they run in these "off shoot" trials where the requirements are such as the standard of excellent is lowered. Much like NSTRA and National Bird Hunters. They are organizations promoting a game for people to play with their dogs off season. They are set up so that finished dogs are not required. They use both AKC and Amer Field registery's but AKC refuses to recognize championships. Amer Field does but as a NSTRA champion, I'm not sure if they recognize NBHA champions.

The venues chosen for the dogs I looked at were chosen because the dogs could compete in some fashion there but, in a high stakes trial with a national registery in an open class, even if the labs were allowed in, they would loose.
Just because there are those wishing to re-define what a pointing dog is to suit their needs doesn't make their dogs pointing dogs. Next we'll see these people calling their dogs treeing labs and tracking labs. Why not? I'm certain they can do it.

I would like to see these people that breed pointing labs to break from AKC and CKC and form their own registery and create their own standards of excellence. They won't because they need the creditability of the national registery's. I did not notice even one dog on that site that had so much as even an AKC Junior Handler title much less Senior or Master. Wonder why? I looked at the pedigree's and as I said, these are not certified pedigrees and they contain no registration numbers. I'll tell you what I do see is a kennel with a lot of dogs that has created itself a market for what appears to be expensive dogs by claiming they are pointing dogs. Again, no retrieving titles from any registration authority at all, no field championship and no hunting test certificates. Nice looking site tho and nice looking retrievers.

A lot of people have worked for many many many years to create a type of dog that will perform certain tasks in a certain manner naturally. I think where this pointing lab came from is people that didn't understand what a pointing dog really does and/or really didn't care for it so they re-defined it but lack the backing of even one registration authority, ever wonder why? I would be courious to see how many more of these pointing lab kennels do not participate in the trials and tests of their registration authority? Ever wonder why? Maybe they can't compete even on their own grounds. Good reason to find a place you can!

If you'd like to know what a pointing dog does may I recommend "Field Trials" x William F. Brown. You can get it thru American Field. Great book.

edit:

I just noticed, you raise pointing labs. But with all the titles you mentioned on named dogs, you didn't mention even one with a pointing title. Those are all retrieving titles.

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Labs on the field.

Just got off the North American Gun Dog Association web site. Thing I noticed right away is that to get a score on a bird there, the dog only has to hold point for 3 sec. That's more like a blink! That's whats wrong with the quality of these type trials, they don't require much in the way of performance, just dead birds.

In contrast, way to the other side, my pointers would point birds over 600+ yards and hold them until I got there, even the wild birds! My shorthairs ranged anywhere from about 100yds out to several hundred and held birds until I got there. I have worked with britt's that were close, 100yds dogs, and setter's that were the same. Then I also worked with a "Johnny Crocket" dog, english setter, that was a lightning bolt. The Vislas I've seen were all 100-150yds dogs or less and are greatly under rated.

When making suggestions on breeds I don't let my own predjuices get in the way. I like all dogs!

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Location: Minnesota
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Labs on the field.

Here are some hunt test titled pointing labs

GMPR (Grand Master Pointing Retriever) MHR Sauk River's Featherstorm
GMPR MHR Riks Risky Raider MH
2X-GMPR, HRCH Black Forest's "BEAR" Grits MH
2.5X-GMPR HRCH BEARPOINT'S ROLL'N HIGH "RENO" SH
GMPR Cajun of Black Forest MH
4x GMPR FARS Shake Quake and Quiver MH
4x GMPR Sharla's Mighty Awesome Dusty MH
GMPR Bar Nones Snake River Otter MH QAA
GMPR Goose Creeks Full Tilt MH QAA
1.5x GMPR Calumet's Wild Card MH QAA
GMPR Gumbo of Black Forest MH

The list goes on and on, I couldn't even attempt to write down all of the MH titles pointing labs. Just because these labs "point" in the upland field instead of flush doesn't make them any less of a retriever. Some of the dogs I have mentioned were qualified for the 2006 master nationals and did quite well.

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Labs on the field.

This is pointless, you win. Just tell me if you will. Which of those titles are recognized by the registration authority registering the dog in question? I recognize that SH and MH might be AKC hunting test titles but the water is to muddy with all that other stuff for me to give creditability to any of it.

Kennel blindness is a serious infection.

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