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SoCoKHntr's picture
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

Here's a thought for you CVC and tell me what you think. I believe partisan politics trumps the whole thought process of most conservatives/repubs that if you have a given situation such as the Iraq war their support will be determined if their political parties leadership tell them to support it or not.

Here's what I mean, lets say in yet another hypothetical situation Gore won the election in 00 and followed the exact actions of Bush regarding Iraq. Another words he used the 9/11 attacks to justify an invasion using the same reasons Bush and company did and the same exact results had happened over the last eight years.

i betcha the right from the top down would have decried it as a mistake and now eight years later would have been saying what abysmal failures they are and how dumb the 'left' was to do it in the first place.

The difference between partisan hacks and those that don't follow their leaders like sheep come down to this.

Even though I voted for Gore and wanted him to win, had he done the hypothetical stated above, I would have been just as vehemently opposed to it as I am that Bush did it. I would have been greatly let down that a leader I supported carried out such a wrong act that I never thought they'd even think of.

If Obama ends up doing something as wrong, I will be just as opposed to it.

CVC
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

You can ask my wife and she will roll her eyes and confirm that one of my tired sayings is that I am not a sheep. I think for myself.

You are right - there are people on the right and the left that think with their partisan brain and have long abandoned independent thinking. Depending on their leanings, the other side is the devil and always will be.

I believe Bush to be the worst president in my time taking that honor away from Jimmy Carter. I don't think he is an evil person. In fact, I think he is a decent person who is misguided and whose wrong decisions have harmed this country.

I am not a Republican, I am not a Democrat, I am an American.

And, regardless of party affliation, race, color gender and what else, I call it like I see it. Good or bad.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

I hope you didn't think, I was implying you are a sheep. I wasn't if so. I just wanted to float that idea out there in regard to the fierce support of the war by some. If the shoe was on the other foot but the situation was otherwise the same, I don't think they'd support it but rather be critics of it.

CVC
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

No, didn't take it that way at all. There are some, perhaps many people that are sheep and cannot think for themselves. They need the group to think for them.

You are right, those at the fringe that support bush and the war would likely oppose Obama and the war if you substituted Obama for Bush.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

Expat wrote,

Quote:
The issue in Iraq is Islamism and its hatred for democracy and secular government. Civilian violence has been so high because the Islamists have been trying to destaiblize the government. What's been going on over there is more an internal struggle for domestic power than it is an attempt to eject the US.

This is correct and has in fact been going on in one form or another since about 1100 AD. In order for us to have killed "hundreds of thousands" of innocents our troops would have to be performing daily and numerous executions of civillians en mass. The fact is there are numerous groups involved in a centuries old power struggle. Kurd, Shiite, Sunni, left overs from Saddams regime, outsider terrorists mostly from Iran and Syriah who have come to capitalize on Husseins demise, all fighting and killing civillians and soldiers alike. This is an attempt by outside governments and internal factions to de-stabalize and take advantage of the current situation. Saddam kept these factions at bay through mass murder (in the case of the Kurds) and iron fisted rule and by pitting one against the other insuring no one group was strong enough to challenge him. Without another Saddam or a unifying force of some sort I see only civil war, terror and more death for this part of the world. To say our soldiers are the ones murding civilians is irresponsible, inaccurate and cruel. There is no excuse for the remark except complete ignorance or blind hatred of your country and it's military. No one, not even left wing leaders like Hillary and Obama are claiming our soldiers are slaughtering civillians willy nilly. Once again I have nothing against SoCo due to his different views and even like him but that remark was not only off the cuff but beneath him.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

And, in regard to Bush, I don't think he is some evil being cackling away at the evil he has wrought. Rather, I am more inclined to agree with you that he doesn't have the capability to see the negative things he's brought about. I think he's kind of a simpleton heavily influenced by hard core ideologues he surrounded himself with. Their influence combined with the Dad connection and what I believe where motives he had there as well caused him to act rashly without having the intellectual capacity to fully think through the consequences of what he ultimately as the 'decider' was starting.

I also feel like ideologue neo cons like Kristol, Fieth, Pearl, Cheney, Rummy, and the people they represent were the real ones pushing for this and influencing him.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
Quote:
SoCo wrote,
And, in regard to Bush, I don't think he is some evil being cackling away at the evil he has wrought.

I'm still pissed at you for the genocide accusation but that's still funny. And no the above is Hillary!

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
BunnySlayer wrote:
Expat wrote,
Quote:
The issue in Iraq is Islamism and its hatred for democracy and secular government. Civilian violence has been so high because the Islamists have been trying to destaiblize the government. What's been going on over there is more an internal struggle for domestic power than it is an attempt to eject the US.

This is correct and has in fact been going on in one form or another since about 1100 AD. In order for us to have killed "hundreds of thousands" of innocents our troops would have to be performing daily and numerous executions of civillians en mass. The fact is there are numerous groups involved in a centuries old power struggle. Kurd, Shiite, Sunni, left overs from Saddams regime, outsider terrorists mostly from Iran and Syriah who have come to capitalize on Husseins demise, all fighting and killing civillians and soldiers alike. This is an attempt by outside governments and internal factions to de-stabalize and take advantage of the current situation. Saddam kept these factions at bay through mass murder (in the case of the Kurds) and iron fisted rule and by pitting one against the other insuring no one group was strong enough to challenge him. Without another Saddam or a unifying force of some sort I see only civil war, terror and more death for this part of the world. To say our soldiers are the ones murding civilians is irresponsible, inaccurate and cruel. There is no excuse for the remark except complete ignorance or blind hatred of your country and it's military. No one, not even left wing leaders like Hillary and Obama are claiming our soldiers are slaughtering civillians willy nilly. Once again I have nothing against SoCo due to his different views and even like him but that remark was not only off the cuff but beneath him.

Hundreds of thousands comment was in reference to dead and suffering. To clarify I didn't mean to imply that our soldiers are just mowing people down. I am saying that deaths that otherwise wouldn't have occurred due to us, Iraq on Iraqi, bombs, disease, deaths because of the war because of our invasion and occupation.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

In that case I admit I misunderstood, pick up my gauntlet and will unload my duelling pistol. You may dismiss your seconds sir.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
BunnySlayer wrote:
In that case I admit I misunderstood, pick up my gauntlet and will unload my duelling pistol. You may dismiss your seconds sir.

I was just getting ready to fire, you're lucky. Thumbs up

Seriously, thanks.

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