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SoCoKHntr's picture
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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
Romey wrote:
Bush also could have allowed the agents to shoot as a response. Which in arabic probably would have been the proper response, ah well Bush failed again Brick Wall,)

Yeah, that would have been highly magnanimous!

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

Say what you want, SoCo, but I doubt you've ever had to spend 8 years of your life under constant threat of assassination (not just Bush -- any president). You have no idea of the kind of security involved in a presidential visit. All it takes is one person in a crowd, one trash can that's overlooked, one car on the street, or one guy in a building. And that level of paranoia exists everywhere he goes.

A baseball stadium is a security nightmare. Imagine being the head of his security detail and being told he wants to walk out to the pitcher's mound -- exposed for 360 degrees with tens of thousands of people to watch and complex architecture with lots of hiding places for snipers in three dimensions.

As for the shoe...he was in Iraq, for goodness sake -- the place with the highest population per capita of people who would want to kill him. A place full of suicide bombers and weaponry. And in the middle of a press conference, a young Arab man stands up, yells something in Arabic, and throws something at him. I might buy the surprise argument for the first shoe, but not the second.

Not that any of that matters to you -- Bush could've rushed through a hail of gunfire to tackle a gunman targeting a day care center, and you'd still find failure in it.

I'm reminded of the story where the Pope visited the US and Bush took him out fishing. As they were crossing the lake in the boat, the wind blew the Pope's hat off into the water. The boat's driver immediately apologized and slowed turned the boat around to get it. Bush said, "Don't worry, I've got it." He then stepped out of the boat, walked across the water, retrieved the hat, and walked back across the wave tops to the boat.

The next day the New York Times headline read: GEORGE BUSH CAN'T SWIM.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
expatriate wrote:
As for the shoe...he was in Iraq, for goodness sake -- the place with the highest population per capita of people who would want to kill him. A place full of suicide bombers and weaponry. And in the middle of a press conference, a young Arab man stands up, yells something in Arabic, and throws something at him. I might buy the surprise argument for the first shoe, but not the second.

But, weren't they supposed to throw flowers?

Are you insinuating he should have been scared the shoe would go off? They were in the green zone and the level of security regarding bombs and or guns pretty much precludes any danger of that.

Also, your statement about the number of people there that want to kill him speaks volumes about how the Iraq's view the man that gave them freedom.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

A few years back an airliner in the Philippines was nearly brought down and at least one passenger killed by a bottle of saline solution filled with liquid explosive, triggered by components smuggled through security in the heels of a terrorists shoes (beneath the scan level of the metal detector). This is why you're limited to how much liquid you can have on board and why you have to take your shoes off at security.

The point is that if security was flawless, planes couldn't be hijacked, bombs couldn't be planted, suicide bombers couldn't strike, Benazir Bhutto would still be alive, etc. Nobody in a security capacity is so stupid as to think their net is flawless and impenetrable.

As the IRA once said to Margaret Thatcher, they only have to be lucky once, and she has to be lucky every time.

So yes, in a situation like what Bush faced, you have to be prepared for the worst.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
expatriate wrote:
A few years back an airliner in the Philippines was nearly brought down and at least one passenger killed by a bottle of saline solution filled with liquid explosive, triggered by components smuggled through security in the heels of a terrorists shoes (beneath the scan level of the metal detector). This is why you're limited to how much liquid you can have on board and why you have to take your shoes off at security.

The point is that if security was flawless, planes couldn't be hijacked, bombs couldn't be planted, suicide bombers couldn't strike, Benazir Bhutto would still be alive, etc. Nobody in a security capacity is so stupid as to think their net is flawless and impenetrable.

As the IRA once said to Margaret Thatcher, they only have to be lucky once, and she has to be lucky every time.

So yes, in a situation like what Bush faced, you have to be prepared for the worst.

Dude, there's always risk, I'm certainly not implying there's not. What were talking about is level of risk. You want to build it up to make your hero look more macho and brave in this situation. In the green zone the risk of someone getting into to a conference with the President with the security measures we impose it's highly unlikely something more dangerous then a smelly shoe would get thrown at Bush.

And in regard to your comment here:

"Say what you want, SoCo, but I doubt you've ever had to spend 8 years of your life under constant threat of assassination (not just Bush -- any president). You have no idea of the kind of security involved in a presidential visit. All it takes is one person in a crowd, one trash can that's overlooked, one car on the street, or one guy in a building. And that level of paranoia exists everywhere he goes. "

Can you imagine the number of extremist nuts that would love to take out Obama? I would venture plenty, plenty, plenty, more then with Bush. Sure, there's plenty of reasonable repubs and Democrats, hell, US citizens that have an intense disliking of Bush for his extremely poor leadership and dishonesty. But, there not the type to carry out extreme illegal acts.

However, with Obama you have your garden variety racists who can't stomach the thought of a black President. Your right wing extremists who think he's a Muslim, communist, 'plant', who in their twisted way of thinking would take him out to save the country, and the list goes on.

If I were him I'd feel the cross hairs on me whenever I wasn't in a highly enclosed secure setting.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

I went back and read every post and nobody said Bush was a hero.
What is being missed here is that the President, whoever he or she may be, represents the United States, which for the time being means You and I and everyone else who resides here.
Now think of the lives lost and the money spent and the state of our Nation where zealots such as SoCo and civetcat spout hatred for our country. leaders, and way of life, all for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Had that been Saddam or any number of Arab leaders this man would be in his heaven with his 40 virgins already.
There are some who will never be appreciative of what the U.S. and the U.K. did for these people but when the Iraqi News Media continues to pounce on every opportunity to trash the U.S. after what was done for them is despicable to me.
Hate the Man if you wish but respect the Office held.

SoCo is correct, Obama is in more danger of being assassinated by racists than any other president in modern times but claiming that they are a representative of the conservative base is childish and only seeks to insult expat and others on this forum who don't drink from the kool aid fountain.
It also demonstrates the twisted mind set of the liberals who are attempting to take this country into the wasteland of socialism.

I personally thought that it was funny that the shoes were thrown and laughed about it until I saw what the Arab News Media was doing with the story.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

SoCok wrote,

Quote:
Your baseball analogy in my view is ludicrous as some kind of showing of bravery. But, go on with your hero worship if it comforts you.

Once again you have put your shrewd and penetrating mind to the task and missed the point entirely. As far as the baseball analogy goes it had nothing to do with baseball. It had to do with being an exposed target with no protection in the immediate vicinity and YES it took guts. At least by any objective standards which you admitted you do not possess. As far as the shoe incident is concerned, Expat pointed out, all concerned probably had no idea what was being thrown until it was too late. Could have been anything. In that part of the third world grenandes are somewhat more common and easier to obtain than shoes. I've been in law enforcement for 21 years and the closest I ever came to shooting someone was when an indivudual I suspected of being a car burglar pulled his wallet out of his coat so fast I couldn't tell what it was. Why I didn't dump him I still don't know. I really thought it was a weapon.

Furthermore I'll have you know my granny panties are lilly white and clean sonny boy. . Laugh

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
JTapia wrote:
Now think of the lives lost and the money spent and the state of our Nation where zealots such as SoCo and civetcat spout hatred for our country. leaders, and way of life, all for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Had that been Saddam or any number of Arab leaders this man would be in his heaven with his 40 virgins already.
There are some who will never be appreciative of what the U.S. and the U.K. did for these people but when the Iraqi News Media continues to pounce on every opportunity to trash the U.S. after what was done for them is despicable to me.
Hate the Man if you wish but respect the Office held.

SoCo is correct, Obama is in more danger of being assassinated by racists than any other president in modern times but claiming that they are a representative of the conservative base is childish and only seeks to insult expat and others on this forum who don't drink from the kool aid fountain.
It also demonstrates the twisted mind set of the liberals who are attempting to take this country into the wasteland of socialism.

Do you realize with your non objective view and wholehearted support of anything right wing you come off as a hell of a lot more like a zealot then me. Take a look in the mirror when you make that accustion. Also, I defy you to find one thing I have ever stated that could be construed as hating America! You sure do make a hell of a lot of outlandish and dramatic as well as slandering statements about people you disagree with. Wonder if you do that in person?

I've read countless posts on many websites where repubs, conservatives, right wingers, have claimed he, Obama, is a marxist, commie, muslim, plant. You think if their thinking is that extreme some might not entertain some pretty extreme ways of handling that which irks them so?

You are a hypocrite to the extreme. Expat has straight out called me names insinuated I was many things as well as you have and you have the nerve to cry about insults at him. Doesn't bother me in the least as it goes with the territory in these type of forums, only bringing it up in reference to your crying about it.

That reporter has lost a great deal of his family since our invasion. Maybe he felt he had nothing to lose after having a great many family members killed. Maybe he doesn't agree with the cost he paid not you.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush
BunnySlayer wrote:
SoCok wrote,
Quote:
Your baseball analogy in my view is ludicrous as some kind of showing of bravery. But, go on with your hero worship if it comforts you.

Once again you have put your shrewd and penetrating mind to the task and missed the point entirely. As far as the baseball analogy goes it had nothing to do with baseball. It had to do with being an exposed target with no protection in the immediate vicinity and YES it took guts. At least by any objective standards which you admitted you do not possess. As far as the shoe incident is concerned, Expat pointed out, all concerned probably had no idea what was being thrown until it was too late. Could have been anything. In that part of the third world grenandes are somewhat more common and easier to obtain than shoes. I've been in law enforcement for 21 years and the closest I ever came to shooting someone was when an indivudual I suspected of being a car burglar pulled his wallet out of his coat so fast I couldn't tell what it was. Why I didn't dump him I still don't know. I really thought it was a weapon.

Furthermore I'll have you know my granny panties are lilly white and clean sonny boy. . Laugh

You act as if he threw the pitch at a game in Baghdad. Let me refresh your memory he was riding a wave of high approval after 9/11 and I don't think the atmosphere at the game was one of high assassination danger.

Also, in regard to the shoe, do you realize this was in the green zone and anyone allowed access to that conference went through multiple levels of security and searches? The risk of someone having grenade or even a knife or explosives in their shoes was extremely low to non existant. He wasn't strolling down the street in Sadr City.

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Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoe at Bush

This is the first I've heard that Random Task had a "great many family members" killed during the war. Do you have a source?

But as I said, I get the insult. I'm particularly insulted to see the Shiites in Sadr City latching onto this. The guy they're throwing the shoes at is the one who freed them from Saddam -- and being a Shiite under Saddam was only marginally better than being a Jew under Hitler. It's interesting that last year the guy was kidnapped at gunpoint and held for three days by AQ while assigned to a Sunni area, and yet he's angry at us -- the ones trying to put an end to AQ. I'm not as angry about Random Task as I am about the Shiites peeing on the graves of the soldiers that died freeing them from Saddam's yoke.

I agree that his ability to protest in this manner is testament to what we've achieved. But I disagree that he'd be dead already if he'd done the same to Saddam. He'd still be somewhat alive somewhere, after seeing his family members raped and murdered in front of him, and then being subjected to slow, painful torture. I don't think that Saddam would be so generous as to kill him quick. The sad thing is that the guy doesn't recognize that Bush's actions made it possible for him to throw those shoes.

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