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Location: Toronto
Joined: 08/22/2005
Posts: 5
I need help identifying a shotgun!

Can anyone help me identify this shotgun? I took it for verification (required by CFC before registering) but the verifier could not identify it. It seems that it has a newer barrel so the make and model are missing which are needed to verify and register it.

All I know is that it is semi-auto, 12 Gauge, 2 ¾” shell and it is made in Italy. There are some markings on it (look at attached pictures) but when the verifier entered them into his firearm-search software, nothing came up.

Thanks!

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Offline
Location: Western Canada
Joined: 03/27/2005
Posts: 77
verification

Nice looking shotgun. It seems the registery is causing yet another hassle for the honest gun owner...I'm a verifier also, but i'm on the west coast. If you give me a couple of days i can look through my Firearms reference table and see what i come up with. There was an updated version that came out a few months ago. Maybe the verifier you went to didn't have the latest version.

Failing the shotgun not being listed in the FRT, Contact the verifier again and ask him to contact the RCMP crime lab in ottawa. As a verifier, he has access to those techs. I've phoned them a few times, very helpful people. If they can''t come up with anything, they will probably ask for pictures and details of the shotgun and they will create a FRT # and add it to their data base. The chances of this happening are slim considering they have about 200,000 firearms on the FRT anyways.

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Moderator
Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 08/17/2002
Posts: 1762
I need help identifying a shotgun!

It looks like it is modelled after the Rem. 1100 by looking at the receiver and trigger mech. Perhaps one of the many clones out there.

Offline
Location: Toronto
Joined: 08/22/2005
Posts: 5
Re: verification
30-338 wrote:
Nice looking shotgun. It seems the registery is causing yet another hassle for the honest gun owner...I'm a verifier also, but i'm on the west coast. If you give me a couple of days i can look through my Firearms reference table and see what i come up with. There was an updated version that came out a few months ago. Maybe the verifier you went to didn't have the latest version.

Failing the shotgun not being listed in the FRT, Contact the verifier again and ask him to contact the RCMP crime lab in ottawa. As a verifier, he has access to those techs. I've phoned them a few times, very helpful people. If they can''t come up with anything, they will probably ask for pictures and details of the shotgun and they will create a FRT # and add it to their data base. The chances of this happening are slim considering they have about 200,000 firearms on the FRT anyways.

A couple of guys on HuntOntario forums think that the shotgun is a 1980’s Fabarm.

I called my verifier again and told him about the technicians he can contact for help, but he said that if he cannot identify it while looking at it, how will they be able to do it over the phone? He seems a bit reluctant to help me and not very informed about what he is doing. For my .300 Savage Remington rifle he filled out only the registration form, he missed the verification form completely so I cannot even register my easily recognizable rifle! So after a couple of phone calls he finally agreed to meet again but I’m afraid that he will not be able to do anything about the shotgun.

There are only two verifiers in my area, and the second one’s phone must have changed because the person picking up doesn’t know what I’m talking about.

Anyway, if you could look at your Firearms reference table that would be great.

Thanks for your help!

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Location: Western Canada
Joined: 03/27/2005
Posts: 77
some info..

The verifier you're using is useless..The owner fills out the Regi info and the verifier fills out the firearms info. Then the verifier is suppose to confirm all the info the owner wrote down. The two main importnat parts of the form are, the owners info, the frt number and the verifiers signature. I would have to say those dudes are right, it does look like a fabarm. It's a good guess anyways.

The info i'm going to post is based mainly on a good guess, with out having the shotgun in front of me to inspect. So take the info as is. But at least it may help you a bit.

The first pic is the front page of the frt report.
The second pic is the back page of the frt report. (Don't worry about page 3, it was just printed to finish off the border of the second page)
The third pic is a "close up" of the first page so you can read the info better.
The fourth pic is a "close up" of the second page so the info can be read better. (sorry about the pics i don't have a scanner. :( )

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Location: Western Canada
Joined: 03/27/2005
Posts: 77
some info cont...

I ran out of text space and pic space..In the last post..This pic is page one of the frt report. (Page 2 is on the post above. Along with page one and two close ups.)

I marked with a pen some info that may help you. The suspected frt # 33933-1 and the possible model Ellegi Super Goose. But on the calibre chart the super goose is a 3" 902mm barrel and yours is a 2.75" (don't know barrel length, looks shorter then 902). I went with the calibre of your shotgun so the frt lists only one 2.75" which is the 33933-1. What is confusing me is what appears to be a scope mount rail on your reciever. If this scope mount rail is factory installed..You may want to verify that it is a 2.75" and not a 3 ". The vent rib should be 12mm on the super goose. Measure yours to see if it matches the spec in the FRT file. I hope some of this info helps.

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Location: Toronto
Joined: 08/22/2005
Posts: 5
Re: some info cont...

I will copy that info. and show it to the verifier next week. Barrel length is 695mm though so it might not be it, unless the barrel is shorter than the original.

Another gentleman is sure it is Angelo Zoli and that he will find out the model, but haven’t heard from him yet.

I also found out that the AM engraving is an Italian year-mark meaning 1984.

Thanks for all the info!

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Location: Western Canada
Joined: 03/27/2005
Posts: 77
Mystery.

I think the guy means Antonio Zoli. That company made semi auto shot guns. I think Angelo Zoli only made pumps and multi barrels. Angelo Zoli and Antonio Zoli are two seperate, different companies. They are not affiliated. But i think they are related family wise. Try the Antonio Zoli route. Apparently Antonio Zoli stamped all their recievers with a bow and "Antonio Zoli" was spelt out as the arrow.

Italian shotguns seem to be as numerous as weeds. Even CIL , remember CIL?, imported a few manufactures shotguns, branded as CIL's own. With out physically seeing the shotgun i can't do much more. They are just as bad as trying to verify a Lee Enfield .303

Take some pictures of the shot gun and email them to Antonio Zoli. They have a web site. Maybe they may be able to help. As for the verifier, Zoli's are listed in the FRT. #61896. For the semi auto shot gun. Question...Does this shot gun have removable chokes that are held in place with an external locking collar? Is the reciever steel or aluminium? Could you take a better pic of the proof marks on the reciever and post them here?

Cheers,

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Location: Toronto
Joined: 08/22/2005
Posts: 5
Re: Mystery.

I went to a verifier again today and CFC told him to put down the make as an Unknown Italian. That’s not exactly what I wanted to hear, but at least I will be able to register it now.

Thanks for all the info guys.

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Location: Western Canada
Joined: 03/27/2005
Posts: 77
I need help identifying a shotgun!

Typical...Why even bother having you go through the hassle of a verifier then.. Screwed up Govt. we have...Anyways...That sort of sucks, because what if it was a "premium grade shot gun"? Now you don't know what you have and it's value..At least it's registered, so you have time to figure out what you have. It would be neat to know.

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Location: Toronto
Joined: 08/22/2005
Posts: 5
I need help identifying a shotgun!
30-338 wrote:
Typical...Why even bother having you go through the hassle of a verifier then.. Screwed up Govt. we have...Anyways...That sort of sucks, because what if it was a "premium grade shot gun"? Now you don't know what you have and it's value..At least it's registered, so you have time to figure out what you have. It would be neat to know.

Once the shotgun is registered I will take it to a gun smith and I will post the info here if he can identify it. Although I don’t think of selling it, I definitely want to know what I have .

Thanks

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