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Joined: 08/18/2005
Posts: 18
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Hello everybody Big smile

I'm interesting about the hunt with handgun, only to know the difficulties and advantages with it, because in France it's forbiden Thumbs up Do you often use an handgun for hunting, or do you think it's better tu use a rifle Think

In France I can buy an handgun for sports shooting, but not for hunting, and all 3 years I must ask a new autorisation otherwise Police will visit me Talk to the Hand ... so I have sold my revolver S&W ;22 lr because I knew that's it was not definitively my property.

But if it's an interesting hunt ... I could buy a new gun more "fun" than a .22 lr like a Thompson Encore in 7-08 and a Leupold on it and hunt with this one during a hunting trip cool

Thank you Big smile

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Joined: 08/18/2005
Posts: 18
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Excuse me, I've don't use the "search function" Oops!

http://www.biggamehunt.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17828

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Location: Northeastern South Dakota
Joined: 08/13/2008
Posts: 8
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Hunting a T/C, either Contender or Encore can be very rewarding.

I was inspired by the articles written by the late Bob Milek in the late 70's early 80's. His accounts of Hunting the Western US with these Single Shot Speciality Pistols is what prompted me to sell every rifle I owned in 1982 and purchased two Speciality Pistols.

In the years since 1982 I have hunted with T/C Contenders, T/C Encores, Remington XP-100's and a Savage Striker. Chamberings have included:

.22 LR (obviously for small game and small varmints)
.223 Remington (mainly varmints and coyotes)
6mm-223
6mm T/CU
.243 Winchester
.250 Savage
7-30 Waters
7mm I.H.M.S.A.
.284 Winchester
.30-30 Winchester
.30-30 Ackley Improved
.44 Remington Magnum

I listed the 7-30 Waters, but up until now my only hunting experience with this cartridge has been with a 10" T/C Contender. I recently picked up a 14" Stainless-Steel 7-30 Waters Contender Barrel. I have my load all worked up, and have done a bit of practicing with it. Hopefully when opening day rolls around I will be ready for the task at hand, I know my handgun is.

No one ever said hunting with one of these big single shots was easy, but it sure is rewarding.

I hope you get the opportunity to try out this sport of Handgun Hunting but be warned it is addicting.

Larry

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Joined: 08/18/2005
Posts: 18
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Thank you Larry, obviously you know very well the subject of Contender and Encore ...

The diversity of calibers offered by this handgun is probably the most important among all models of gun, and allow to change barrel for the use of the moment, like you do with the 12 calibers whom you have ...

For me, according to the french law, it could be a good choice to have a barrel in .222 Remington for shooting and hunting small game (an handgun in .222 Rem require an authorization like for an handgun in .223 Rem, but even if I need an authorization for the gun the .222 Rem ammunitions (or reloading components) are in free sale for hunters, while for the .223 Rem (war caliber) I need an authorization to buy the gun and 1000 ammunitions by year Brick Wall,) ). For the same reason, if I buy a barrel in 7-08 that's because the .308 W is a war caliber so components (cases) are not in free sale. And if I make .308 W cases with .243 W or 7-08 cases it's not interesting (price of .308 W ammo). And I have already a rifle in .222 Rem and another in 7-08, so it's interesting for me to use the same dies and reloading components.

An other question, please : do you think these rifle ammunitions in handguns with "short" barrels have a good stopping power ? After the shot the game fall in few seconds or minuts (when you use a classical rifle caliber for this game in your handgun) or you see a really better efficacity of these calibers in rifles ? I think I know the answer, if you have sold all your rifles your handguns make their work well ? In France an hunting rifle need a barrel of 20" or more, so I don't know the result on game of our classical hunt calibers with barrels of 10 or 12" eye roll The only thing I know, that's magnum calibers is not a good choice with short barrels (in France hunters often use .300 WM, and with barrels of 20" it's already very short) Shame on You!

It's an intersting debate cool

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore
French hunter wrote:
Thank you Larry, obviously you know very well the subject of Contender and Encore ...

The diversity of calibers offered by this handgun is probably the most important among all models of gun, and allow to change barrel for the use of the moment, like you do with the 12 calibers whom you have ...

For me, according to the french law, it could be a good choice to have a barrel in .222 Remington for shooting and hunting small game (an handgun in .222 Rem require an authorization like for an handgun in .223 Rem, but even if I need an authorization for the gun the .222 Rem ammunitions (or reloading components) are in free sale for hunters, while for the .223 Rem (war caliber) I need an authorization to buy the gun and 1000 ammunitions by year Brick Wall,) ). For the same reason, if I buy a barrel in 7-08 that's because the .308 W is a war caliber so components (cases) are not in free sale. And if I make .308 W cases with .243 W or 7-08 cases it's not interesting (price of .308 W ammo). And I have already a rifle in .222 Rem and another in 7-08, so it's interesting for me to use the same dies and reloading components.

An other question, please : do you think these rifle ammunitions in handguns with "short" barrels have a good stopping power ? After the shot the game fall in few seconds or minuts (when you use a classical rifle caliber for this game in your handgun) or you see a really better efficacity of these calibers in rifles ? I think I know the answer, if you have sold all your rifles your handguns make their work well ? In France an hunting rifle need a barrel of 20" or more, so I don't know the result on game of our classical hunt calibers with barrels of 10 or 12" eye roll The only thing I know, that's magnum calibers is not a good choice with short barrels (in France hunters often use .300 WM, and with barrels of 20" it's already very short) Shame on You!

It's an intersting debate cool

I'm getting in on this a little late, but first off, I really don't understand the rules there regarding the 7-08 because it's parent case is the .308/7.62Nato. But then there are a lot og gov't policies that are irrational. And not just there.
As to your power ?, depending on the the set-up and caliber of an individual SP (specialty pistol) the power level varies, no different than rifles. because of the short barrels, and the velocity loss attributed with them, one should adjust range accordingly. Bullet construction and peformance is very important. As the caliber gets smaller the more critical it is. But they will cleanly/humanely kill just as quick as a rifle used with in ,what I would call ethical ranges.
There are any number of rounds that can be chambered in the Encore that will push a bullet with good ballistic coeficient's and of good terminal performance properties, that make very deadly rounds at some extended ranges.
Personally I'm not into ultra long range hunting, I just prefer test my hunting skills against the animals instincts.
Be that as it may, as an example, if you take and there are a number of them , a round that'll drive a proper bullet for intended game, at 2600 fps. This will point blank easily at 250yds., and 300 yds. isn't difficult. (I know some guys that shouldn't be shooting this far with rifles, but do.) And they have plenty of whats needed for clean kills at those ranges. I do have a 6.5mm round that has what I consider enough for clean kills at 500 yds. but I won't shoot it at a game animal at that distance.
It's my personal opinion that when the caliber gets smaller, the the terminal energy levels should go up some. But, as much as I agree that hydrostatic shock imparted by the bullet has a good deal of effect, it's penetration that matters most to me. So, on smaller calibers, I tend to shoot a little heavier bullet weight.
But if you wanted a 7-08 which is an excellent SP round, with a little extra work I think you might get around that 308 parent case issue. I would then shorten and form it from 7x57 brass. Then again, you wouldnt really need to shorten it much either.
Just run the 7x57 up in a 7-08 die and leave the neck long and have the chamber cut accordingly. I did a similar round using longer .307 brass forming a 250 sav ai rimmed and left the neck long.
Then there too, just use .307 brass and go with a 7-08 rimmed.
With a good break action, the possibilities are almost limitless.

Dave

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Joined: 08/18/2005
Posts: 18
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Thank you onesonek cool

I didn't know that it's possile to make 7-08 case with 7x57 Mauser case, but unfortunately in France all war calibers, even very very old, need an authorization of war firearm : .223 Rem, .308 W, .50 BMG, but also 30-06, 8x57 JS, .303 British, 8 mm Lebel, 7x57 Mauser,, ... the list is long with all calibers used by all army of the world since before world war 1 That mean you can't buy a war rifle of world war 1, but you can't also buy an hunting rifle with one shot chambered in these calibers Brick Wall,)

So, if I wan't to use 7x57 cases to make 7-08 cases, I need to buy a rifle (or handgun) chambered in 7x57 and take those 7x57 cases in reality to make 7-08 ammunitions. But the rifle in 7x57 need an authorization to renew all 3 years in reason of the war caliber, so as strict as to buy an handgun.

If you think the 7-08 is a good choice, I'll see in september to ask an authorization to buy an handgun ... and wait few months to ontain it Brick Wall,) I thinh I'll wait my authorization 2 or 3 months, or even more ...

Thank you very much for your opinion on this subject. It's difficult to obtain experience about this subject on French hunting forum, because it concern hunters with an sports shooter licence and an handgun autorization ... wich use their handgun during an hunting trip, so probalbly not enough hunters ...

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

Well, if they look at all military round, even ones not in use, that pretty much takes into account nearly all sporting rounds except the belted and few other rimless of non US origin. And even our military use the 300 win mag in certain applications. They pretty much got you by the perverbial nuts, as I said, most popular rimless rounds today come from either 7-8x57, or 30-06 heretige
If you are truely interested in the 7-08 round , which as stated, it's excellent in a Encore, Then I would go with the 7-307 and have it custom chambered. The .307 has no connections with the military, other than it' has the same dimensions as with the .308 with a rim added for lever guns. Just run it up in 7-08 dies. Spose you need authorization for those too?

And no you can't just take a 7x57 and convert it to a 7-08 without rebarreling. If I understood you correctly?My point was you can make 7-08 from 7x57 brass. I wasn't thinking and forgot that it too had been used somewhere as a military round.
Sounds like you almost need to go with a wildcat and with brass that hasn't even come close to military involvement. Or even just go with the .284 Winchester. It's original with no military ties., and is more potent than the 7-08, yet not overly so.

Dave

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Joined: 08/18/2005
Posts: 18
Hunting with Thompson Contender / Encore

I was not sure for the classification of the .307 W, I have verify and maybe it's possible to buy ammunitions (and only brass if I want, the problem is to find this brass in France ...), but the rifle in .307 W need an authorization, because it's possible to chamber a .308 W ammunition in a rifle chambered in .307 W.

But if I want to make 7-08 ammunitions with .307 W brass (hunting ammunitions) it's not a problem. To buy war ammunitions, I need an authorization so I need a rifle authorized in this caliber. But for hunting ammunitions, I can buy it with my hunting permit or my sports shooter licence even if I don't have a rifle in tihis caliber, so even if I can't buy a rifle chamberred in .307 W it's possible to buy .307 W brass cool

For your information, with our laws there are situations more stupids : if you wan't to buy a lever rifle, you can buy a lever rifle chamberred in .357 magnum with an hunting permit ... but you can't buy .357 magnum ammunitions (.357 magnum is not a war caliber, but it's an handgun ammunition wich need an authorization). So if someone wan't to buy a lever rifle in .357 magnum that meens he needs an authorization for example for a revolver chamberred in .357 magnum to buy ammunitionq Brick Wall,)
On the contrary, you can buy a lever rifle chambered in .44 magnum (without authorization) and also ammunitions in .44 magnum without authorization even if it's an handgun ammunition Confused
That's clear hunters and sports shooters without .357 magnum authorization prefer lever rifle in .44 magnum ... except maybe to decorate the chimney lol

For the military use of .300 Winchester Magnum, you have absolutely reason (Remington M24 for example), but probably they consider the use of this caliber by army is very restricted. In France, .338 Lapua Magnum is also classify in hunting caliber, but French army use it in their PGM rifles ... So much the better for us. We can also buy rifles in 30-30 WCF, but during History it was not always a civilian caliber Whistling

Quote:
And no you can't just take a 7x57 and convert it to a 7-08 without rebarreling. If I understood you correctly?My point was you can make 7-08 from 7x57 brass. I wasn't thinking and forgot that it too had been used somewhere as a military round.

Yes, that's I have understood, maybe my answer was not clear : you take a 7x57 brass, you round it in the 7-08 die and you get shorter from 57 to 51 mm.

Of course, you can't transform a 7x57 barrel in 7-08 barrel because the chamber of 7x57 rifle is already longer than a chamber of 7-08 . But if it was possible, it would be useles, if a war rifle is transformed in civilian rifle, the authorization is out-of-date, we can't buy ancient war ammunition of the rifle Shame on You! This sort of modification is very classic in France : to buy an ancient war rifle sports shooters prefer rechamberring the barrel in a civilian caliber and they can buy it without authorization. For example :

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/nolasco/ (see "catalogue")

In this example, if you have a Mauser in 8x57 JS and you decide to rechamber it in 8x60 S or 8x64, you can't continue to buy 8x57 JS ammunitions Talk to the Hand

Thank you, I'll see where I can buy .307 W brass and if the price is more interesting than 7-08 brass it will be easy to make 7-08 brass with .307 brass cool I have already a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 7-08 and components are quite expansive, so use brass less expansive to make 7-08 brass is a good solution

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