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Don Fischer's picture
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Hunter Orange no longer required
funkster162 wrote:
All I know is if my good friend was wearing hunter orange this season,he would still be alive. NO animal is worth dieing over.

funkster,

Welcome to the site.

Your wrong about why your friend is no lnoger alive. The reason is, I assume from what you wrote, that someone failed to identify positively the target befor pulling the trigger. Many years ago in Idaho some guy shot a kid stepping off a school bus. Said he though it was a deer. Now I don't know about anyone else but I strongly suspect that all the blaze orange in the world would not have saved that kid if the shooter couldn't recognize a school bus!

There are simply to many people in this sport that do not accept the responsibility that goes along with the sport. That is one big reason why we come under fire so much.

Again, if a yellow school bus doesn't help, what good is 200 sq inches of blaze orange?

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Hunter Orange no longer required

Don................I 100% agree with you. Blaze orange is not the fix....target identification is.....being sure of your target is one of the main things taught in hunter education.

There is really no such thing as a hunting accident.....there are cases of stupidity, like hunting in a tree stand and falling out and landing on your arrow or breaking your neck (read - no safety harness).........stupidity/criminal behavior, like looking at another hunter through your scope instead of using binoculars (read-pointing a firearm at another human)...........criminal negligence, shooting and wounding/killing a person due to not being sure of your target...............homocide, as in shooting your wife's new boyfriend and pretending it was a hunting accident (yes this happens a couple times every year somewhere).

The last person killed in a 'hunting accident' near where I live was shot while riding an ATV on his own farm while wearing blaze orange. The so called hunter shot from a road while leaning over the hood of a truck. Gee.....there were only about about a dozen various infractions by the shooter that caused that unfortunate death. Blaze orange didn't help? How can that be?!

Governments legislate blaze orange and can use it as a feel good/liability cover. It also makes it easy for Conservation Officers driving down the road to spot hunters. It does little to reduce hunting accidents but mandatory hunter training certainly has......ie teaching safe firearms use and drilling it into people that they should not shoot unless they are absolutely sure of their target.

If everyone used binos to identify their targets and made sure of it before they raised their rifle, looked throught the scope and pulled the trigger......how many 'accidental shootings' do you think there would be?

I can see the use of blaze orange or yellow if you are into doing drives. I am all for wearing a blaze orange suit if it makes you feel good and eases your mind, but do not ever think it will protect you from getting shot by an idiot. The closest call I have ever had in 40 years of big game hunting was while wearing a blaze orange hat and vest out in the wide open in a logging block.

You can try and legislate safety all you want, but no amount of legislation will protect you from stupidity or criminal behaviour.

Yes, the government can force me to wear blaze orange while I am hunting on my own farm where I am the only one that can legally be there......and wear it in a tree stand and a shooting box......and up in the tundra where the only hunters around are the ones I am guiding that flew in on a plane. But, for some reason, they hesitate to ban the use of cell phones in a car and the odds are some moron yacking on the phone will kill me with his/her Nissan Sentra long before the 'hunter' that trespasses on my farm and mistakes me for a deer while sitting in my tree stand 16 feet above the ground.

Fortunately I can still wear my cowboy hat when I am riding my horse, although in a few years I am sure someone will be wanting to give me a ticket for that.

In the mean time government will allow firewood cutters, bird watchers, hikers, horseback riders, mountain bikers, people walking their dogs and archery hunters dressed in camo to be out in the field and exempt from the perceived safety of the blaze orange attire. No, they are not required to wear blaze orange as there is some strange mysterious thing that protects them from idiots.......idiots will only accidentally shoot other hunters.

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Hunter Orange no longer required

2 seasons ago I was up rifle hunting Elk on one of the lumber barren properties. Having had enough for the day. I was walking out on one of the lumber roads and to my surprise was a young gal, I know, coming up the road on her bicycle taking her Lab for a run. Let me add that neither had any hunter orange.
I stopped her and asked if she realized that Elk season was open in this area. She responded that she did not. I encourage that she go back to the highway before someone mistakes her or her dog as something shootable.
This was about 3/4 of a mile in off the highway. During the five mile hike out. I spotted 5 hunters looking to fill their freezer.
I must say that I don't believe that she knew she could ride a bicycle as fast as she peddled back to the highway.
The next time I saw her. She thanked me.
This just goes to show that the general public (non hunters). Don't neccessarily know the whats and wheres of the seasons.
There are some lumber properties that they don't allow hunting, season or not, when they are working in the area. I wouldn't start making a stir. It may just bring the closure of more land.
I think it's up to the person behind the trigger to be responsible. Let's not make it any worse.

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Hunter Orange no longer required

I think that you may have missed my point entirely.

Just the fact that you thought you needed to warn the girl and send her back to the highway is a sad state of affairs. If things are truely that dangerous where you are and hunters that trigger happy that a non-hunter should feel threatened while out on their bike, then there is a real problem.

Hunting occurs all around me, in the rural area where I live, for elk, moose, deer, bear, etc. If that is how dangerous things really are maybe we should be putting out newspaper ads and warn everyone to stay home in their houses as it is hunting season.

I always find it interesting when the blaze orange topic is brought up. Many hunters in their responses insinuate that they would not go in the bush without it. This suggests that they do believe the vast majority of hunters out there are morons and may shoot them. I also always see the assumption that the mere fact that they did not get shot while wearing their blaze orange proves the need for it.

If you look at the stats.......the old well worn out comparison that driving to work is way more likely to get you killed than going hunting with all those gun toting mad men................why is that so many hunters think nothing of driving on the interstate, yet the minute it involves hunting with firearms they are quick to indicate the risks and make it sound more like Apocalypse Now than a few days in the woods hunting. Could it be that the vast majority of hunters have inadvertently bought into the decades if media hype and the danger of 'firearms' than they care to admit??

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Hunter Orange no longer required

Your out of line.
Taking precautions is a good thing.
Besides, she knows to check on seasons in the areas around her. This whole area, for miles and miles in any direction, has some excellent Blacktail and Roosevelt hunting with small towns and homes/ranches scattered throughout. I know of some that have taken their quarry off their porch or in their own garden.
I, myself have never had or has anyone I know has ever had a "hair raising experience" as the ones you refer to in your experience.
Some of the lumber companies are taking precaution for their employees. All of the workers I run into, during a hunt, are friendly and helpful. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm simply stating that they are. This move is cutting down on the areas, around here, that are open during the seasons. This also includes muzzleloader and archery and I've never worn orange for either one of those seasons.
I don't believe the government or any other agencies are conspiring to spot hunters in the field by instituting the use of 400 sq/in of hunter orange. Aren't muzzleloader and archers hunters. They aren't required to wear any orange and are typically in full camo with calls and a set of antlers in tow. If those items don't get an inexperience hunters attention. I don't know what would.
Slow down big boy.

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Hunter Orange no longer required

I am not out of line and there is no need to slow down. Believe me, I am not going fast.

I am merely pointing out contradictions that hunters themselves do all the time on these forums. I was not pointing at your specific post.......so if I was not clear I did not intend it to be.

This topic is an old one and comes up all the time. I had one, as you put it, hair raising experience in all these years.......well not counting watching uneducated hunters use their rifle scope for glassing, which I see all too frequently and have to give them crap for.

My point is that if blaze orange was so effective, it would be required for all in the woods during a rifle or muzzleloader season. If it is not, then it really can't be that dangerous out there and stats back that up, in that it is the safest sport out there. Much of what we do in our daily lives, like driving cars, is much more risky.

There are always two sides to this debate. Watch the posts on this topic in all the forums you come across. There are many that make it sound like they would never dream of going in the bush without blaze orange because there are that many idiots in the bush. That is counterproductive, is it not? Yet those same people, if confronted by people that say hunting is dangerous will jump in and tell you how safe it is. I have seen too many shooters on various forums that say they have quit hunting because it is so dangerous in the woods...........guys like that definitely do not do us any good.

I agree, taking precautions is fine. I do however think as a society we get way to caught up in legislating safety for every damn thing that comes along as a perceived threat, when in fact most of what happens can be prevented by a little bit of common sense.

Your points about archery and muzzleloader may be site specific but orange is required in many muzzleloader seasons in other jurisdictions. There are even a few places I know of that had a blaze orange requirement and later removed it, as there was nothing to indicate that it made hunting safer, thereby leaving it up to the individual.

I see hunters on forums contradict themselves constantly. Many buy into some of the media hype, just like the rest of the people. There are lots of hunters out there that openly badmouth other hunters because they use in-line muzzleloaders, compound bows, hunt bears during the spring, use dogs for cat and bear hunting, bait or don't bait, trophy hunt.............and like it or not, when hunters openly say it ain't safe out there and that blaze orange should be mandatory, it falls into the same category.

By the way, lumber companies and mines use the hunting season as an excuse to close areas to hunters. It eliminates any perceived risk of liability on the part of the commercial operator. I have that right from the mouths of a guys I know the run and work at a large mine. If they ahd their way they would keep those areas closed all year to everyone. They can't get away with it most of the year, but the added perceived threat of gun toting hunters is enough for them to do it and get the government to buy into it.

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Hunter Orange no longer required

As stated earlier. I remember when, in the western states I've hunted. You wore what ever you desired as long as you had a tag. You could also hunt anywhere in that state and the seasons were longer. Now, depending on where you are. You may have as little as one weekend to hunt an area. If you don't score. You wait till the next season. That puts a lot of hunters into a restricted area.
Thankfully, here in Wasington. We have a bit of choice left. For Deer you get a tag and are free to go anywhere in the state. Be it Blacktail, Muley or Whitail and the seasons are anywhere from 9 days to 6 weeks. Depending on area and method. For Elk, you get a tag for east or west of the Cascades. Again, amount of time depends on area and method. Bear and Cat are a bit less restricted. As long as your papers are in order.
I'd like to be able to see the regs relax but with the "management" and liabilities. There sure has been some major changes made. This is in my lifetime. I hope the future brings an awareness for the "better".

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Agreed.............some changes for the better would be refreshing.

It does get depressing at times when the only changes you see made are more restrictions or outright bans.

My entire life has been a series of moves.................moves to areas with less people and more area to roam, less restrictions and good hunting. Sadly, I am afraid I have made my last move. I cannot see anywhere else to go that will be beneficial. My idea of remote is quickly becoming a thing of the past and I am starting to have trouble even finding hunters that know what I am talking about.

Don Fischer's picture
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I believe that the hunter orange law exist's as a feel good program to convince someone that we care about safty. Actually it's simply a cheap and painless way of saying we care that doesn't fix any problem. We say you have to be more visible because we also say that if anyone want's to shoot away at 1000+ yds it alright. And if someone just want's to go blast away at more normal range's, that's his right also. We as hunter's have a right to be there doing what we do and you'd better be careful or we might shoot you, by accident. When incident's do occur we alway's jump up to call them, "accident's". They are not. There may be a lot or reason's why someone pull's a trigger but an accident is not one of them.

I wonder about the girl Fuzzybear mentioned with her dog. If some moron shoot's someone wearing blaze orange it's usually called an accident. What if the moron shot the girl with her dog? What do you call that? We all know it's not legal to shoot people just because they aren't wearing orange at least I don't think it is. But if it's hunting season does it get reduced to an accident because the hiker didn't have orange on? Don't we have a responsibility to identify our target? Most of us believe so.

I don't see the safty issue being one of visibility but rather one of irresponsibility. The most training or instruction of any kind we see we see right here on the internet. And then I read some pretty hair raising stuff. I recall one guy telling about hunting coyote's at night with a spot light and shooting at 290 yds. How can he be sure it's not kids on a snipe hunt? And if it is and one catches a 55 gr bullet, is it an accident or manslaughter? If a hunting season is open why don't we require all outdoor user's to wear orange while we're out there? Shouldn't they be required to be visible to us or should we be required to identify our target? I think everyone here think's we should identify our target. What difference if it's a hiker out for a walk or a hunter looking for game? None I can see! Probally wouldn't be a good idea to shoot either.

As a group, I have see to many time's, hunter's jump up and say as long as it's legal, nothing else matter's, that couldn't be more wrong. There are attitudes out here that are down right scarry and wearing orange will not change the attitudes. It's the attitudes that cause some of the problem's. It's miss information, all over the internet. Seem's that many do thing's because they can and to hell with the consequences. My feeling is that when we are out there with our firearms persueing our sport, we need to be far more aware than many are. I believe that some of the thing's some make light of really need to be condemed strongly, and quite often are.

One of the thing's I think that many don't seem to realize is that more and stricter laws on firearms are not a product of the anti's, they are a product of our own apathy. Blaze Orange? We should not need it!

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I just had another though. What do you think would contribute more to safty, blaze orange or elminating night hunting?

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