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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

I know pie charts might be a little difficult for you jjrsimplot. Don't feel alone many republicans have a tough time with the fact based community.

You draw a false analogy to 9/11. To put it right it would be like claiming 9/11 wiped out 200 million Americans, when we know it was only 3K.

GM is a very small part of a very large economy. The pie chart gives a visual representation for those who have a tough time with numbers. Take a look.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 40
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

Is it possible for you to respond on any form of intellectual level?

Once again, you're staking out a ridiculous position that makes us look like idiots.

You're saying GM isn't a big deal because it's a small part of a big economy. True. And 3,000 Americans is a small part of a large population. Also true.

Webster defines an analogy as a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison can be based. You can't use the small percentage argument as a tool to illustrate a point, and then turn right around and discount that tool when someone else uses it. That's like using the concept of gravity to explain the tides, and then turning right around and arguing against the very existence of gravity when someone else refers to it.

They're complaining about apples, and you're talking about oranges. The issue here is fears about government control of GM. Rather than ducking around the issue and pretending it doesn't exist, why don't you attack it head on? Admit that the government has invested billions and taken an ownership share -- and then show the wisdom of that decision through economic arguments that ilustrate that it's the correct thing to do.

Rather than proving that the decision was right, you're arguing that it's not that big of a deal if it's wrong. That doesn't convince anybody -- all they hear is you telling them, "It could be worse."

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Location: Florida,USA
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Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

Great and rational post jrsimplot.

Only part I disagree on is that when Chrysler was helped out in '79 there was not a Socialist regime in power.
This President has shown time and time again that it is about power for the party rather than power for the people.
These bailout "deals" appear on the surface to be payback for support in the election, that cannot be ignored.
One has to ponder if this is just part of the "Big Plan".
I personally don't believe that Obama is a bad guy but, as with any President, you have to keep your guard up and you antenna clear and pointed toward the truth.

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

Bear in mind, too, that the Carter Chrysler bailout was only $1.5 billion and didn't involve government ownership.

One need only look at other government run entities to see where this is going. Amtrak? The Post Office? This isn't going to go well, if for no other reason than government has never produced a product that outperformed private industry in terms of cost and capability.

Another reason this effort is doomed to failure lies in political leaders that put politics or personal desires ahead of business sense. A classic case of this is Germany's experience developing the world's first jet fighter, the ME-262, during WWII.

The 262 began flight tests early in 1941. If developed and employed as a defensive interceptor, it could've devastated the bomber fleets laying waste to Germany's industrial base in 1944-45. However, Hitler pushed the project toward ground attack instead. Then he then compounded this delay by blocking mass production of the 262 until the spring of 1944. By that time, it was too late.

Government bailout of GM is one thing, but if political leaders succumb to the temptation to let politics drive product lines and policies, it's doomed. If they build a quality product that people want, then they'll make money. Unfortunately GM's problem in the past was that they had that backward -- they figured their job was to build what they wanted and convince the American people to buy it. That kind of thinking let the Japanese wipe the floor with them. If government decides that it's going to tell GM what kind of cars to buy based on political decisions, it will doom the enterprise to failure.

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Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

Jr wrote,

Quote:
Is it possible for you to respond on any form of intellectual level?

Jr, while I don't agree with you on many levels you are none the less intelligent, well thought out and reasonable. You cannot however reason with the unreasonable. Please don't worry as we all understand he is not representative of most people who's politics are left out ours ironically anymore than Mr. Chavez represents them. As you can see no matter how polite or reasonable we are with Civet he is just here to pick fights. Not win converts or engage in intelligent discourse.

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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

jr you just used a bad analogy that's all, and Expatriate grossly exagerates when he says the whole place is going red. GM as big as it is, is a tiny part of our economy. Look what we spent on the banks.

I like the bailout of GM for pure political reasons. I like unions and I like saving union jobs. I consider it a soft landing for a dying sector of the economy.

Quote:
The Post Office? This isn't going to go well, if for no other reason than government has never produced a product that outperformed private industry in terms of cost and capability.

Don't know anyone else who can move a letter across the country for a half a buck. Who you going to call when your house is burning? I like public schools. People complain about the police, I think we've got the best in the world. Just a short look around shows our privat health insurance has been broken for 30 years. (gee wonder what happened 30 years ago) Interstate highway system? The list of public doing better than the private is endless. Don't want to make cars but sure wish private industry were better regulated.

Bunny just for fun how about leaving out the private attacks. If you have a contribution larger than, "ya what he said" then speak up.

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

Let's see...

US Postal Service: lost $2.8 billion in 2008
FedEx: Turned a profit of $493 million in the 2nd quarter last year (ending Nov 30th). And who does business and the government turn to to ship things? FedEx.

Schools: Roughly two million children in the US are home schooled, and the number is increasing by 15 to 20 percent per year.

Private health care system? Yeah, it's so broken that people are leaving socialized programs in other countries behind to come here and access it.

Amtrak: Lost $496 million in FY 08 -- despite its monopoly on passenger rail business.

Police protection: effectiveness evidenced by the increase in gated communities, gun, and alarm sales.

Government has a place in a lot of areas, but it's not known for efficiency.

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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Hugo Chavez says he, Castro may be on Obama's right

I don't know about the gov using Fedex. I get tons of mail all the time, all those 941s and stuff are all sent to me and I send money and forms back first class. Post office is deep in the red but I still like it, sure wouldn't want to see it gone, I dont' care if they double rates to send letters, it would still be way cheaper.

I can't talk about home schoolers as I don't want to disrespect peoples beliefs, I do feel sorry for the kids.

Universal health care is so horrible that every other advanced industrialized country has it, and a lot of not so advanced ones. I never hear about them giving it up. Can you name a country that's giving up universal health care and switching to our kind? Didn't think so. Nothing is a better example of crony capitalism run amok. Most money spent, some of the worst care. I dont' think people come here for health care, more likely Mexico, India, or Thailand. Google medical tourism.

Those places with rail, thrive, those without, die. Amtrak is a matter of funding, we should and will spend more. (remember the levitation train to Vegas he he he he, whatever happened to that, oh, what's that? It was all made up?)

You can keep your gated communities and hire a cop security. Everyone on our street knows each other, police know me and my family, they wave on the way by, and the guys on the late shift often sit in thier idling cars outside my house watching the main drag that is empty of traffic in the middle of the night. In our community the police look upon it as more than a job, as do the teachers, street crew, water folks, building inspectors, civil engineers, all city employees. Guess we're all just socialists or as Expatriate says socializers.

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