While I didnt read this whole thread, I didn't need to, so if i repeat what has been stated forgive me.
But really Jeff I think you are thinking somewhat backwards.
First off , I can't say what other states do, but in MN, you have to go through some training classes before getting a CCW. Education is a good thing, don't you agree? Personally, I think there should be more mandatory firearm education in our school system. It would cut down on accidents, not that it would stop crime.
Next, human nature will never change, there will always be those of the criminally intent. With that said, self preservation is a God givien right, and shouldn't be a legislative measure whatsoever. But it is. Not everybody is running out to get CCW's just because it's possible.
But, if more of the population carried though, you would see crime rate drop. It will never stop those hell bent on violence, but I for one prefer the option of self-defense in an emergency that required a gun, than dial 911.
Just suppose somebody decides to violate you in a life threatening way,,,,,,,What you going to do,,,, say "wait please while I call for help"
Like that'll work!
I don't care what you personally want to do, if you don't want the option of self preservation,,,,fine. But don't go imposing that everybody should do the same.
That thought process has been around long enough, and "control" measures have done nothing but help the criminal, not the victim. Think about it!
Just look at the so called "gun free zones" that have been terrorized. They're advertising themselves a target(s) of oppritunity for the "wackos"
Dave

FYI
I see that jefflb916 has not been logged in since Jan of 2007?

I never really paid attention, kinda figured it was old though.
Is kinda funny, it does appear it was his last post.
Ya spose he got mugged just after he posted

Dave

Maybe for two reasons.

1 He's severely ashamed that he posted such a question an an obvious pro-gun site, and has no logical defense for all the hell he has caught.

2 Maybe he's one of those pro-hunting people who are weak on their stance for gun rights. Sad but true, there are too many sportsman out there who still don't care that their gun rights are under attack and many of them oppose the NRA as well.

I've read and been a part of may other discusions on other sites such as coloradowaterfowl.com and duchhuntingchat.com where there is still a number of sportsman who think that DU and Rocky Mnt Elk Foundation will protect their gun rights, so as a result they snub the NRA.

I personally know two biggame hunters who oppose the right to own or keep handguns or any AR or AK type rifles. Sad.

onesonek wrote:
First off , I can't say what other states do, but in MN, you have to go through some training classes before getting a CCW. Education is a good thing, don't you agree? Personally, I think there should be more mandatory firearm education in our school system. It would cut down on accidents, not that it would stop crime.

I agree with that 100%. However what I meant about all states being like Vermont is that I still don't think that we should have to obtain permission from any local or federal government just so that we can protect ourselves in public. But you are right about the education part. Everyone wanting to carry should educate themselves on the laws, common sense, safety, carry techniques, and the like. Anyone owning or considering owning a firearm should do the same. Same goes for the school system.

It is sad, far too many don't realize that the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, it's about defense. Defense from those that wish to do us harm, and those that wish to oppress us. Whether they see it or not, we as gunowners have been under going oppression for a very long time. And with every gun control measure implemented into to law, the tyranny continues to grow.
It's been stated before, but I'll state it again, when will the public as whole realize,,,,,, "gun control is not about guns, it's people control".
All you have to do is look at history, and you'll see what is in our future if it continues on course.
Our democracy and freedoms as we understand them are going to fall, no question about it, it's just a matter of when. The government is dictating to us more and more. I still believe we live in the greatest nation on earth as far as fredom goes, but the government is wittling away at those freedoms more and more every year. I seen a quote by one of our leaders say that, "the public is too stupid to think for themselves, we are here to think for them",,,,,hmmm, makes you wonder which direction they are headed don't it?
Point is, the more complacent we get, the quicker our freedoms will disappear.

Then too I agree, the 2nd is only "law" that should be on the books. All other's are nothing more than an infringment on that right. As you can see, our own government has been overiding and negating rights of our Constitution for a long time.
I ask,,,how does tyranny and oppression start?

I still think anybody running for public office be required a Degree in history. Pretty hard to envision a future without knowing the past.
Our government was set up, that those elected are working for us. More and more, I see we are working for them!

Dave