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Joined: 04/01/2009
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Honduras -- the rest of the story

The trick is we like to change governments by voting them out of office, most other people like to do it this way too.

Now here is the really hard part, listen up Republicans this is for you. Even if you don't like the guy who wins the election that's just the way things go. No use claiming the other side cheated or make up excuses for doing bad things, just think about why the people didn't vote for you.

The Chavez coup of a few years ago was a case in point. Bush was noticably silent. By their silence (and by whispering) they endorsed the undemocratic coup, so we turned a socialist loud mouth into a cause celeb around the hemisphere and hardened anti US support in Venezuala.

Notice so far we have a total of one US senator saying he thinks the coup was a good deal. I mean there is a reason the world and the entire US government minus one cable news channel and one Alaskan bear hunter think that a military coup is a good thing.

And no, the guys who took over the presidential palace and beat up the president who hadn't finished the term he was elected to weren't the legislature or the supreme court, they were the army. Kind of quaint how all basic civil rights have been suspended.

Face it, bad call on Expatriate's part. Not everything on Fox news is gospel, or even a good idea.

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Honduras -- the rest of the story

So in other words, you deny the Honduran government's right to manage its own constitution?

Once again, your position on this is that a nation's congress and supreme court have no right to control a president that violates the law and leaves them no way out but to arrest him. You're also on record that other nations have to answer to us for a legal review of their internal politics. That reflects a stunning distrust of democracy and a type of ethnocentric view of the world that Democrats once condemned.

By your standard, the Chinese could've stepped in and demanded that we reinstate Nixon.

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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Honduras -- the rest of the story

I'm not on record on anything, I'm on a chair in my living room. Get a grip. Certainly don't submit my online opinion to the official minutes of the US congress or something. "on the record" he he he.

What exactly did the president of Honduras do that was unlawfull?

Answer: nada

What did he want to do? Run for another term that isn't allowed in the constitution.

What did he do the precipitated the military coup? Scheduled a legal referendum on the idea to guage public support. He also fired a general who disagreed with him and that was the big thing. Since when can't a president fire a general?

I doubt very much the constitution of Honduras has a provision for a military coup if the congress and the Supremes dont' like the president. Besides who says they dont' like what he's doing? Did they vote or what? Is that how they change leaders anyway? Congress and supremes decide who is out? Ever read the Honduran constitution? Me neither, I'll just depend on the level headed judgement of the rest of Latin America and our own goverment minus one nutty senator from (SC?) and a cable news source that prides it's legal right to lie.

"distrust of Democracy, ethnocentric" happy 4th to you too.

Yes

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Honduras -- the rest of the story

Do us all a favor -- actually read about issues before spouting off about them.

The legal way to extend the president's term required congressional approval for a referendum. Proceeding without that approval was a violation of law.

And I'll say it again since you seem really slow on the uptake. This wasn't a military coup. The military didn't cook it up, nor did the military dissolve the government and take control. The Honduran congress employed the military to remove a rogue president. Did you think congressmen were going to arrest him personally? The elected Honduran government and its constitution are still intact and in charge. And oh, yeah...the new president is from the SAME PARTY as Zelaya. Same government, same party running the executive...hardly a "military coup" on par with a rogue general taking over the government.

Your logic has more holes in it than a sponge. Here's another example. By your standard, if the Iraqi legislature in 2002 had arrested Saddam for criminal activity, you'd be calling them out of line and demanding that he be put back in power.

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Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Honduras -- the rest of the story

Funny how the left wing nuts allways think any constitution is simply an obstruction that a President should be able to subvert anytime he wants and yowl about democracy only when it suits their purpose. Sounds all too familiar doesnt it? Maybe south america's not that far away after all.

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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Honduras -- the rest of the story

So go ahead and read the constitution of Honduras then come back and spout baloney. I'll believe my state department, you keep listening to Fox.

The name of the General who took over was Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, after he took over the country by military force in the middle of the night and beating up and sending the old President out of the country he met with some of the legislature and they decided in a voice vote to appoint the guy now in charge.

Romeo was POed because he'd been fired the week before.

Now I know that deep down in your right wing little beating hearts you'd wish to do the same here, but you can't, so just wish on, or move to Honduras.

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Honduras -- the rest of the story

That's all you've got?

Once again, the military is not running the country. Brick Wall,)

Honduras' provisional president is Roberto Micheletti -- a member of Zelaya's party and head of the Honduran Congress. He was sworn into power by that body. Honduras is not being run by a military junta. It's being run by the same government, sans its rogue president.

Velasquez was fired because he refused to obey an illegal order. So apparently you not only feel a president should have the authority to impose his own constitution, but that military officers should show loyalty to him over the Constitution as well?

What I'm seeing here is what appears to be your belief that government power rests solely in the executive, and that all that other stuff like congress and the supreme court are just window dressing to look good and do the president's bidding. You have a thing for dictators, don't you?

Once again...try reading. Study up on democracy and how various democratic governments work.

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Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Honduras -- the rest of the story

There are at least 3 Republican congress critters forming a "coup caucus", I'd probably call them the kooky. One of them had this to say,

Quote:
"The so-called 'military coup' in Honduras was a successful effort by Honduran patriots to preserve their constitutional system of government from an international alliance of communists and socialists backed by Iran,"

Classic, Expatriate you couldn't have said it better yourself. "communists and socialists backed by Iran". So see you're not alone.

lol

http://www.undispatch.com/node/8559

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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Honduras -- the rest of the story

That's it? That's all you got? Out of ammunition again, I see.

Here's a picture of a Honduran protester that says it all: we don't have oil, don't have dollars, but we have balls. It takes guts to confront a president and tell him the government's not his for the taking.

http://cubanology.com/cubareport/?p=1975

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Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Honduras -- the rest of the story

I guess it's too ingrained after all Expat. Too much koolaid. "Thou shalt not question the president" is just too firmly implanted that apparently ANY President gets that benefit. Unless his name is Bush.

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