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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 10/26/2006
Posts: 357
hog releases in Pa

singlemalt: by the way, I have always considered everything I've taken trophies as well....when I say I'm a trophy hunter, I don't mean I only take 150 class bucks.....what I mean by that is that I enjoy hunting for primarily bucks, I don't mind passing up little guys but I will take a decent buck regardless if he is considered a trophy by P&Y or B&C standards. I usually get a few doe tags every year, but I don't rush too fill them and I let many does walk. Usually if I fill my buck tag I enjoy taking friends and family out to help them fill their tags. I've even put people in stand in areas where I know there are some bucks moving even if I haven't filled my tag. I enjoy seeing somone elses joy in harvesting a doe or buck even if I'm not hunting....I just like being out there.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
hog releases in Pa
Single Malt wrote:
There is a huge differnce in antler restriction an herd reduction! I know of few hunters whom are against antler restrictions. I know many whom oppose runnig doe and buck seasons together with inflated anterless tags year after year.
Public land hunting can't be compared to hunting on private property anywhere in the state.

In creating the antler restriction and combining the increase in doe's taken the PGC actually (and I think it was by accident cuzz most of them dont know crappola about true hunting) did a good thing. They were allowing the increase in GOOD geneticly sound bucks to live and breed, while taking doe's to bring the herd to a sustainable number. Yes SOME areas in the North eastern part of Pa did suffer somewhat from this but overall its been great for the herd. While I dont trophy hunt, I do recognise the importance of genetics and allowing the little boys grow to be big boys. With the explosion of Doe's comes many BAD things. Insestual breeding, starvation, car/deer collisions, disease and many other things. As far as public land verses private land, it falls to the owners of the private land to open it up for hunting to GOOD hunters that have conservation in mind. Kinna hard to hunt on POSTED land which is SO prevolent in Pa. One thing I DID notice though, and it may have just been me, But I rarely had problems gaining permission to hunt posted land. The main reason that I found that people had their land posted was because of disrespectful hunters destroying the property and just going in and wailing anything that walked! I showed that I had respect for the owners and their property and was actually there to HELP them (farmers and such) reduce the deer in such a way that is was good for them and their crops. The simple act of just going up to them and being courtious and respectful went a long way to gaining permission to hunt. That and I primarily bow hunt so they wernt worried about WW3 breaking out on their property. I did find however that public land (South Central ones) were overpopulated with the totaly stupid and lazy hunters not getting into the woods till 8am and such as that.

Antler restriction and herd reduction in actuality fall into the exact same catagory which is over all herd health. Some may think that just hunting for big racks is just a male machismo thing, but in truth it is helping to increase strength and viability of herds. Big Racks mean Big genetics, signifying strength and durability in the animal which passes on to the fawns. You take a strong doe that was bred by a strong buck and you get a strong lil one.

As far as introducing pigs to Pa. Dumbest damn idea I think i've EVER heard of. Like OldProf said its not only stupid but would be HARMFUL to the land. Pigs are so proliferant it aint funny. Femals can have like 12 piglets a year or more and their destruction of land is WELL documented. Look at Texas and the problems THEY are having. If you arent seeing deer in Pa. then I have to agree with Strut here, you aint hunting right. I hunted all over the state and usually saw a minimum of 3 deer a day. You want to see BAD and HARD deer hunting, Go to Main. I hunted there HARD 6 days and saw 1 deer in all 6 days. But DAYUMN that Doe was HUGE!!!!! They have the concept, quality over quantity. A 200 pound live weight doe is not uncommon there. Theres another example also that the deer population in Pa needs to be reduced. By a general rule, Northern deer are bigger. Now Pa is pretty dang northern on my map but the deer on average are around equall to sometimes smaller than deer I took in Tennessee. Why is that? Over population is one main reason.

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 10/26/2006
Posts: 357
hog releases in Pa

well put cam Thumbs up

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
hog releases in Pa

Howd ya do strut?

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Joined: 11/01/2007
Posts: 92
hog releases in Pa

Well I doubt someone from Ill. can comment first hand on anywhere in Pa about deer management other than what he's read in mags. or seen done in Ill. . He first needs to be on the ground here for enough years to know what Pa was back in the 50s,60s,70s.
The loss of support for the GC isn't over antler restrictions it IS about LACK of deer sportsmen in general are seeing. Yes Pa has an aging hunter group but along with that comes the knowledge of hunting in Pa for more than a handful of years.
Strut let me give you a bit of advice, the sport of hunting is bigger than your personal results ...you've been hunting for what 8 years...most hunters here in Pa have been doing it MUCH longer than that. I ,myself have killed 31 8pt or better in a streak of 33 years. All during pre Alt days all when we were only allowed 1 deer/yr. An if it hadn't been for these older guys supporting the PGC they'd have turned belly up years ago! If sportsmen/women in general don't see deer they aren't willing to keep the GC alive....look at the results...the GC is broke now at the hands of failed deer management goals...they prospered most when hunters saw deer, recruitment rates were highes during high deer number times.

I've said it many times QDM has done more to hurt hunting than the antis have. It has brought about leasing lands, over crowded public lands, less deer, lower hunter recruitment rates,etc. Unless you're willing to pay to hunt on a lease or have access to private ground the hunting just is not as good as it once was..that is a FACT. One that someone needs to be involved in the sport for more than a few years to understand.

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
hog releases in Pa

Why is it with some of the "older" generation that we have to repeat everything we say 10 times before they actually hear/read it?

I just recently MOVED HERE TO IL FROM PA. Did you actually read that?

Now to address some of your rediculous points.

Rediculous point #1: The PGC is far from broke.
Rediculous point#2: Pa is in the top 10 in license sales in the country so OBVIOUSLY QDM hasn't turned hunters away.

Rediculous point#3: Yes there are less deer in Pa since the adoption of QDM because THAT WAS THE POINT OF IT. Overpopulation of the herd was decimating the the herd health since they just dont have the habitat to sustain that population.

I see a lot of the older generation complaining about this and still have trouble wrapping my head around it. It's My OWN opinion that most of them are just angry because the LAZY way doesn't pan out anymore. The days of just hopping out of your truck, seeing a deer, and whacking a deer are over in Pa which, again, WAS THE POINT. And BTW I've hunted over 40 years myself so dont try to pull the "Ive been in the woods longer than you" card out.

Having Hunted or been guiding hunters in Pa from opening day of archey to closing day of late archery, my time in the woods was vast in Pa and I could plainly see the results of QDM and what the PGC did. You actually have to HUNT now in Pa and thats a good thing. There are still MANY spots in the state where you can go whacking. But the North Eastern part of the state with the big woods is far from that nowadays. If people are angry then its because they lack the heart to actually get out there and hunt hard!

If you want Pa to go back to the 60's and 70's then you will also need to reduce the HUMAN population for the habitat to sustain those kinds of numbers. So get out of your truck malt and get out in the woods DEEP and HUNT!!! The deer are still there. You just need to gain the heart to hunt them!

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 10/26/2006
Posts: 357
hog releases in Pa
cam69conv wrote:
Howd ya do strut?

Not good at all, lol, seen one doe about a 100yds away, but thats ok, I know where there are three good bucks for rifle season and late archery so we'll see how it goes. How about yourself?

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
hog releases in Pa

Didnt get to pull my bow enough to feel confident this year. Had a bad shoulder injury dumping my bike so Im stuck with having to gun hunt this year. Refuse to hunt IL though because of that FOID card thing you have to have. I may be coming to Pa to hunt my old property. Or may swing by your place. Evil!

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 10/26/2006
Posts: 357
hog releases in Pa
Single Malt wrote:
Well I doubt someone from Ill. can comment first hand on anywhere in Pa about deer management other than what he's read in mags. or seen done in Ill. . He first needs to be on the ground here for enough years to know what Pa was back in the 50s,60s,70s.
The loss of support for the GC isn't over antler restrictions it IS about LACK of deer sportsmen in general are seeing. Yes Pa has an aging hunter group but along with that comes the knowledge of hunting in Pa for more than a handful of years.
Strut let me give you a bit of advice, the sport of hunting is bigger than your personal results ...you've been hunting for what 8 years...most hunters here in Pa have been doing it MUCH longer than that. I ,myself have killed 31 8pt or better in a streak of 33 years. All during pre Alt days all when we were only allowed 1 deer/yr. An if it hadn't been for these older guys supporting the PGC they'd have turned belly up years ago! If sportsmen/women in general don't see deer they aren't willing to keep the GC alive....look at the results...the GC is broke now at the hands of failed deer management goals...they prospered most when hunters saw deer, recruitment rates were highes during high deer number times.

I've said it many times QDM has done more to hurt hunting than the antis have. It has brought about leasing lands, over crowded public lands, less deer, lower hunter recruitment rates,etc. Unless you're willing to pay to hunt on a lease or have access to private ground the hunting just is not as good as it once was..that is a FACT. One that someone needs to be involved in the sport for more than a few years to understand.

SingleMalt: First of all, I been hunting 8 years...so what?....I'm only 27 years old...big deal....the fact of the matter is....I support the PGC and I support what they are doing or have done....I'm a successful hunter and I do anything I can to support the future of hunting in PA. So, stop crying about it and get on a more positive note. Getting on the forum and telling everyone that the PGC sucks is not going to make things better. Maybe you should call the PGC and tell them your concerns. Like I said before, look at the bear population, look at the turkeys, bobcats, elk and coyotes.....and yes look at the deer herd...it may be smaller but much healthier and better off. Like cam said, you actually have to hunt to be successful, its called "hunting" not "killing".

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
hog releases in Pa

I'll bring the .303 strut... We'll get in there and show them that there are still MANY deer in Pa. Id bring the .444 or the slugger but youd have to carry my arm after it disconnected from whats left of my shoulder out with the deer sad

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