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CVC
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Hillary wins PA

I think people who only vote party-line are foolish. There is bad and good within each party and one should vote the candidate and not the party.

To vote for an inferior candidate simply because of their party affliation is counter-productive.

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Hillary wins PA

In washington if you choose democrat or republican for the primaries you must vote all republicans or dems. But in the general you can vote inbetween. Expatriate, I realize you may not be pro mccain but you have to admit that he is better than the other two choices. Soco, while you may be well intentioned, you cannot place blame soley, on the republican party. How many years ago did the whole topic of ANWAR come up, it was shot down. The forests that are clear cut are a majority of privately owed property that is used as a RENEWABLE resource. They provide jobs, and a good product that is widely used. While we may have been taking it in the shorts as you say, when these involuntary unversal health care, college fund, and other government programs fire up you wont even have shorts to take it in.

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Hillary wins PA
CVC wrote:
I think people who only vote party-line are foolish. There is bad and good within each party and one should vote the candidate and not the party.

To vote for an inferior candidate simply because of their party affliation is counter-productive.

I could not agree more CVC.

Ex, will you run for political Office?
I would most certainly vote for you !!! Thumbs up

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Hillary wins PA
Quote:
What is this a Republican only forum?

Not really, its just that the hypocrisy of the potential democratic presidential nominees is particularly poignant these days. Hillary campaigning on a pro-gun platform? What kind of quackery is this?

I agree with CVC.

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Hillary wins PA

One thing I find particularly tiring is the standard left wing playbook. Lots of people throw a lot of emotion and rhetoric out there, but if you debate them point by point with facts they accuse you of not having a mind of your own, call you names, accuse you of lying, say you're a stooge for Rush, Halliburton, oil companies, you name it -- anything but refute arguments and debate with logic and facts.

As for November I wouldn't be so cocky, SoCo. Obama's long on style, short on substance. People like the IDEA of Obama, but not necessarily the facts of Obama. He's too green, his politics are too ham-handed and transparent, the demographics he's winning won't carry the election, and he's too liberal. Americans like their presidents to be patriots who believe in their country, not pessimists who see only fault in their country. And why has Hillary been struggling so much? Because of perceptions that she isn't being straight, and whenever she gets questioned she screams that she's being victimized. Americans don't want presidents to be snake oil salesmen, and they want their presidents to be strong and not whine about being picked on. Obama doesn' t get that -- try to pin him down and he dodges he issue by claiming that it's some sort of dirty attack. I believe people are tired of that garbage and that they want a president who'll answer instead of dodge. And finally, Americans don't like to elect pacifists when they feel people are out to get them. If that wasn't enough, Obama's been struggling to win over his own party. It's not going to get easier for him when he has to win over conservatives and all the Hillary supporters who hate his guts.

And by the way, SoCo -- here's a smattering of things to think about: bans on lead bullets in CA, bans on black bear hunting in NJ, expensive programs to control deer populations with contraceptives instead of hunting, draconian restrictions on transporting firearms (check out NY and MA), closing forest service roads, and proposals to require microstamping of ammunition, just to name a few. It ain't conservatives or Republicans pushing 'em. On the other hand, if you look at initiatives to open more land to hunters and roll back firearm restrictions, you'll find that most of the time it's conservatives pushing them.

Also...check Obama's record when it comes to gun ownership. What a politician does in the execution of his office is far more important than what he says while pursuing it. While you're at it, check out the records of committee chairs in the House and Senate, and consider where things will go if the Dems get all three branches and control judicial appointments. A gun owner voting for Obama is like an Israeli voting for Bin Laden. Stop listening to what he's saying and read what he's done.

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Hillary wins PA

I will just say this. I am voting for Obama. I am not worried about losing any of my rifles and will likely purchase quite a few more during the years of his Presidency. You talk about emotional rhetoric? You guys wrote the book on that. Everything scares you, scares you to death. Any one who doesn't think exactly like you is the enemy. To be honest that kind of thinking is akin to the hard line thinking of the Taliban instead of a brave patriot.

Tell you what though, you keep on listening to Rush and let him tell you how to think and who your enemy should be. I'll be glad our country is getting back on track and be doing some shooting and hunting.

Ciao

CVC
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Hillary wins PA
SoCoKHntr wrote:
I will just say this. I am voting for Obama. I am not worried about losing any of my rifles and will likely purchase quite a few more during the years of his Presidency. You talk about emotional rhetoric? You guys wrote the book on that. Everything scares you, scares you to death. Any one who doesn't think exactly like you is the enemy. To be honest that kind of thinking is akin to the hard line thinking of the Taliban instead of a brave patriot.

Tell you what though, you keep on listening to Rush and let him tell you how to think and who your enemy should be. I'll be glad our country is getting back on track and be doing some shooting and hunting.

Ciao

Your post is very disappointing. To categorize fellow hunters based on their party affliation is disheartening to say the least.

Yes, I am a republican, yes I am conservative, but I don't follow Rush. He is an entertainer, not a political leader. I do not think like the Taliban and to suggest so is offensive.

This is America - you have the right to vote for whichever candidate you choose. I do not support McCain, but I do believe he is the lesser of three very weak candidates. I do think Obama will create a political evironment where we will see more attacks on our 2nd amendment right and will try to appoint liberal, anti-gun, anti-hunting judges both at the federal level and to ths SCOTUS if an opportunity presents itself.

I harbor no anger towards you because you have a different political view than me. It is unfortunate that you don't share that same point of view and feel the need to attack me simply because of my political affliation.

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Hillary wins PA

CVC, I will make an apology to you. You do come across as a very reasonable man and again an apology is warranted. My unwarranted hostility arises from being a gun owning sportsmen a lifelong hunter and dealing with a majority of peers who's ideology is mostly in line with the likes of Rush, Nugent, and other hate filled propagandists.

The thing that really irks me about the rights view points is the you are with us or against us mentality. I don't share that view and wouldn't expect any one to agree with all of my views down the line. I am a free thinking live and let live kinda guy as long as others don't infringe on my space. I would pick up arms in a moment in legitimate defense of this country. I just can't reconcile what the current admin has done to this country and how you have diehards that still support and want more of the same.

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Hillary wins PA

I keep hearing the same thing over and over again. Its "I cant stand what this current administration has done to this country" or "President Bush has been the worst president ever." What exactly has been so horribly bad. There have been some unfortunate events that have taken place but I cant think of anyone who ran against him that would have handled it any better. People talk about the mortgage crisis, I say you shouldnt have bought more house than you can afford. To the fuel issues, we have known that this was going to be a problem for a long time and our hands have been tied so there has been little drilling. Weak economy/recession, you may be surprised but its not as bad as the media would have you believe, look at the unemployment numbers. As fantastic as is it is you CANNOT always have job growth, there will always be the ebb and flow. Health care, there are issues there but if insurance is important you will make it a priority. I dont know how many people say they cant afford health insurance but they are driving around in a brand new car. The list goes on and on.

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Hillary wins PA

SoCo, believe it or not, I do have a mind of my own. Just because I'm conservative doesn't mean that I was imprinted by someone. I haven't quoted Rush anywhere here. And stop throwing the "hate" card. Disagreeing with a political position isn't hate.

Your actions illustrate my point perfectly. Rather than produce facts (or refute them) and debate civilly, you're calling names, pigeonholing, spouting emotional rants, accusing people of intellectual dishonesty without evidence, launching into stereotypes, denying a person's ability to think for himself, and throwing trump cards like "hate" around. Personally, I've always been suspicious of people who attack fhe messenger instead of the message; it looks like an inability to compete in the realm of ideas. You haven't put any facts forward or substantiated anything you've said with anything but emotion. Political discourse ought to be more than that.

As far as Obama goes, if you study history there are two things that can't be ignored:

1) When a society elects a leader who runs on charisma and dodges scrutiny on his positions (or even attempts to destroy those who question him), bad things happen.

2) Nearly every brutal dictator and despot of the last century came from the LEFT, not the right. This list includes Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and Hugo Chavez, to name a few.

The difference between liberalism and conservatism is simple. Liberals believe that individuals should be limited for the good of the state. Conservatives believe that the state should be limited for the good of the individual. That's why human rights and personal liberty have traditionally suffered far worse onslaught from the left than from the right. If you doubt me, consider the fact that it was a Democrat who shipped over a hundred thousand Americans to prison camps during WWII solely because they were of Japanese ancestry. Jim Crow was a Democrat, too, as evidenced by people like Bull Connor and George Wallace.

Go ahead and vote for Obama -- that's your business. But as for me, I'm voting for freedom.

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