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Location: Georgia
Joined: 08/13/2003
Posts: 29
Growing wolf populations are...

We are not "introducing" wolves to the yellowstone or other ecosystems, we are "reintroducing" wolves.
The reason we are "reintroducing" wolves is because they have all been killed off by a determined effort by our ancestors. I think time will show that they had good reasons for what they did.
Since the lower 48 was already basically devoid of the wolf depredation problem then I think they should have stayed free of these pests.
Like it or not, times have changed. The west is no longer the open, wild lands of 200 years ago. Any romantic ideals of free wolves are quickly shattered by the reality of their habits. They don't go down to McDonalds when they are hungry, they kill. They kill the very game animals we cherish and cattle and sheep raised by ranchers. Yet in the wisdom of their benefactors no controls are placed on their numbers or expansion.
I personally have a problem with a predator that hunts a single terrified animal in a pack. One that pulls the struggling fetus from its helpless mothers womb and rips it to pieces. This is a predator that hunts newborns and young who have not had a chance at life. Forget the talk about them only eating the old and sick.
This is the way of the wild. And as long as wolves are allowed to exist this is the way things must be.
I don't blame the wolf. I blame the heartless, nearsighted, so called conservationists who pushed for its reintroduction.
And, the day could very possibly come when hunting is no longer needed as population control. The wolves may be good enough at this without our help.

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 890
Growing wolf populations are...

''Thank you Captain_Obvious, I think you have a well suiting name. If you would have taken one minute to read bitmasher's reply, you would have used at least .5% of your brain and realize you just said exactly what bitmasher said.''

Oh, thanks for the advice, I was simply trying to use smaller words than he did so you'd have a better chance of understanding. I appreciate your concern for my brain.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 02/27/2002
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Growing wolf populations are...

For Pete's sake get a grip Idahocityhunter! 3 posts and your already insulting people....

So what if he had some similar statements to mine, I misspell, double post, and forget what I'm saying in mid sentence. You can't hang around any board and be perfect, if your expecting perfection your expecting too much.

If you so badly want others opinions here, why are you in such a rush to insult them? Chill out.

[ This Message was edited by: bitmasher on 2003-09-22 21:23 ]

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Location: West Carleton, Ottawa, Canada
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Growing wolf populations are...

Getting back to the topic...I think that wolf populations are acceptable, but I equally and absolutely believe that farmers/ranchers or anybody else for that matter has the right to defend and protect their property (ie: herds) on their land.

Wolves are smart - if they get shot at enough times they'll learn to stay away from cows. When our community pasture first opened (196?) my Dad was the manager and they had a real problem with wolves and coyotes the first couple years. So every day they carried a 30-30 and every time they saw a wolf inside the pasture they shot it or at least at it.

An interesting side note to this is many people would consider it immoral to hunt the wolf, that it was cruel, yet standing passively by watching and listening as it tears your calves to shreds is fine...but I'm getting off topic.

By the time I came along (1971), the wolves had figured it out. Rarely was one seen inside the pasture, but any night you wanted you could drive to the north fence and listen to them howl. Unfortunately they've moved even further north now as more land was cleared for farming, and the moose herd was pushed deeper into the bush.

As for game, well that's more of a grey area for me. Some areas and populations can support wolves, some can't. Even those that can will see severe impact at first until deer/elk/moose get used to the idea of having a new predator to contend with. And I believe Idaho when he talks about a 94% calf mortality, and I would say it's very likely that predation had a lot to do with it.

I guess the short answer to what turned out to be a rather long reply is that in GENERAL I think they are alright - as long as people have the right to shoot them (on their land) to defend their own livestock.

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Location: idaho
Joined: 09/19/2003
Posts: 4
Growing wolf populations are...

Ok i'll chill out. But I do agree with saskie, as long we are aloud to control the population the old fashioned way. I can guarentee one thing; When and if they issue tags on the wolves, I will be on them in a second. I would love to have one of their hides on my wall.

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Location: Colorado
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Growing wolf populations are...

You have a good point Saskie and Darkhorse too about viciousness of wolves. Wolf apologist seem to ignore how brutal they can be and act as if they are bunch of overgrown puppies, which just incenses ranchers even more. None the less, I still think they have a place out there.

Don't forget though non-domesticated wolf prey aren't stupid either. There is quite a body of research out there that shows they learn pretty quick when re-introduced to wolves. That article doesn't mention it but I have read other research that states that moose become fearful of wolves within one generation.

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Location: Arizona
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Growing wolf populations are...

Obviously this is another one of those hot-button topics. I'd like to suggest a new thread that's sure to generate the most controversy possible on this board:

Is it OK for someone as ignorant as you to pay $10,000 to take a 1000 yard shot at a wolf standing over a bait pile from an ATV on Sunday with a .270 firing ballistic tips?

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2003-09-25 04:17 ]

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Location: Alabama
Joined: 08/25/2003
Posts: 615
Growing wolf populations are...

That sure would get every body rilled up! That would be the longest thread in history. LOL

_________________
BORN TO HUNT, FORCED TO WORK!!

[ This Message was edited by: bnow0707 on 2003-09-25 17:09 ]

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Growing wolf populations are...

Yeah that would be an interesting thread Ex. :smile: Only twists I could suggest would be if it would be OK if the wolf was running toward the bait.

If the running is OK, would it also be OK if the wolf was running (in all its snarling glory) after a PETA member that had been trying to pet the "cute doggy"? Personally I might bask in the poetic justice....

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
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Growing wolf populations are...

PETA really crack me up. On this other forum I used to post on, a PETA representative actually started to attack the other members and even the moderator for not being vegetarians. We had several members that were either pregnant or had chronic illnesses that mandate that protein intake be higher than average, and this person said those are all just lies, excuses, etc etc, scary thing is, if memory serves, the person was only 14 or 15 years old. It was intriguing to me that someone would try and judge and even dispute the needs of people they have never even met, for conditions they probably don't even understand, and even for the healthy members, it got very bad.