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Joined: 12/03/2005
Posts: 1691
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

Well it really boils down to this:
When "tim" booked his hunting trip with the Outfitter did the outfitter tell him that the hunt would be on public land and that other hunters could justifyably be in the same area.
If the answer is "YES" than our buddy tim would have no reaon to gripe or complain to anyone, he was informed before hand.
.
If the answer is "NO" than the Outfitter misled tim or at the very least "convenienly" forgot to inform him of this very important fact.

So this year, when tim is hunting on the "public land" it should be no surprise to the outfitters new clients if they encounter him.
I'm interested in hearing from tim and what he was told by The Outfitter/Guide.

.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

Think it through ... did the outfitter offer to take Tim in to get a ram and then for the spot to become Tim's life-long honey hole (for sheep)? Probably not. It's tempting, yes. Tim's fees included the outfitters prior knowledge, scouting, trip logistics, and then getting Tim in front of a ram. The outfitter will be really p-d off if he crosses the same ridge next year with a paying client and there's Tim with his friend 100 yards ahead of him. Has Tim broken the law? No. Has Tim stepped on some toes? Yes. Did Tim ask him on the outiftted hunt if he could come in afterward and hunt the same spot DIY? Probably not. Could Tim call the outfitter now and ask? Yes, he could call. What is the Outfitter going to say? "Yeah, hunt my honey-hole." No, probably not. Though maybe, since that outfitter's `bread and butter' may not be sheep in that area, and maybe he really liked Tim.

On the negative side, the outfitters in 26 (new and old, as there has been some turnover) get pretty pissed off in general with DIYs on `their turf'. Indeed they do in fact act as though the OWN the land, which they definitely do not.

But Tim's elaboration brings in some more information: 1) he wants to hunt mule deer, and his outfitted hunt was for sheep; and, 2) it's a large area.

First, Tim, I have been considering the same (or similar) scenario ... I went in with my dad on his 2004 outfitted sheep hunt there (same `hill' you got yours) ... it would be a blast to go in there for the Nov Controlled Unlimited mule deer hunt, and I would consider going with you. Second, your guide might be pissed to see you there (at the airfield or along the trail) ... BUT THERE IS HUGE AREA TO HUNT AND NOT CROWD YOUR (EX-)GUIDE. So, don't shoot a deer from the same rock you shot your sheep - and you should be okay - if you hear what I'm saying. If I ever go in there (and I indeed might), yeah, I might get a frown from an outfitter at the airfield - but that will definitely be the last place we see each other. There's plenty of room to stay clear of one another. Or I may come in via another airfield. I will call it the "Mountain Man Hunt" ... maybe crank out some video and an article. You can relate to the title since you have been in there.

I have also considered wandering in there with someone with a sheep tag. I would not be afraid to hunt other drainages for sheep, from what I learned from my dad's hunt. But I would not set up camp and hunt where I think the outfitter might be operating.

tim
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Location: north idaho
Joined: 06/11/2004
Posts: 612
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

when i went sheep hunting in the area, the outfitter told me there was some good deer hunting during the rut. No other time. We never talked anymore than that on deer since we where sheep hunting. Not deer hunting. This area has a unlimited controlled hunt for deer.

I was talking to the outfitter the other night, just to bullshit and he told me that he can get away from the "DIY" because they fly in and don't walk to far. He has a couple of camps and just uses camps that don't have alot of people around. This outfitter also doesn't have the whole unit to hunt in. Just his allocation. So you could fly into the same airstrip and hike down aways and not be in there hunting area but still be in the same gmu.

So let me ask this. Can i kayak this area? Can i backpack this area. I had kayaked the area before taking a sheep hunt. If you use an outfitter does that bar you from ever going back to an area for any reason.

tim

redrider's picture
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Location: NE Kansas
Joined: 03/20/2006
Posts: 2603
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

Not if it is PUBLIC. Anyone can use it.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?
tim wrote:
... If you use an outfitter does that bar you from ever going back to an area for any reason.

Absolutely not (public land) ... doesn't depend on how you get in or what you're hunting. But again, use common sense and some courtesy. Some people fly in to those strips and DIY hunt for sheep, deer, whatever. Some people take pack strings, some walk. To get to the area supposedly good for the rut hunt it would be a LONG walk.

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Location: Powderhorn, Colorado
Joined: 04/07/2003
Posts: 167
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

I agree with Serious Hunter. The outfitter only has a certain area to operate in the total area or game management unit . As long as your not walking on his camps and clients, I see no problem. I have seen people closely follow a client/guide pair while they are hunting to see where they exactly hunt a special "honey-hole". This is totally unethical. I always figured it like fishing........if somebody is there first in a certain spot, move on down a ways to do your own thing. This is called common courtesy for sportsmen.
I also don't understand why everybody has a negative attitude towards an outfitter. Is it because he/she is making a living doing this on public land or what? They are providing a service to people who most likely can not do it by themselves in a rugged Wilderness area. Outfitters pay fees to the Fed and state governments plus a county tax where they operate in to do business.

redrider's picture
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Location: NE Kansas
Joined: 03/20/2006
Posts: 2603
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

I'm with you 100% about using the exact same area. I'm assuming this public area is rather large and plenty of room for hunters not to encroach on each others space.
Speaking for myself I have no negative feelings toward outfitters whats ever. I hope to someday be able to use an outfitter for game I have no clue about.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

We assume that Tim has an honest question and is not just trying to come up with some clever, clandestine way to hunt the outfitter's honey hole. In other words, if the outfitter's clients come in by plane and then packhorse, but Tim gets in by kayak and sets up just downstream, is it Okay? Well, it's probably legal, but neither courteous nor terribly smart. Just keep going and find your own honey hole. If I get enough money - I'd like to hire an outfitter to take me on that rut hunt - save me the time and energy of doing it DIY. Let someone else `do all the work'. Perhaps before then I'll do it DIY - there's plenty of room in there.

I was talking with a landowner a few days ago getting lined up to hunt his land. He was telling me about a time when he was there standing behind a NO HUNTING sign and some hunters skidded to a stop, unloaded their dogs, and started hunting right in front of him. He asked them if they knew how to read. They rebuffed him that the property didn't have the `required amount of orange' (see Idaho no-trespassing regs). They thought they were being clever. (Actually, they were still wrong since ag land need not have the required amount of orange.) A HUGE alarm should have gone off in their heads that they were suddenly in danger of being arrested for trespassing (in Idaho your hunting license is also automatically revoked), and/or having a tractor driven over their vehicle (and out here the tractors are BIG).

I learned long ago it is not worth it to try and be `clever'. Get permission or don't hunt. The kind of hunting I do requires ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of my concentration. If I have to be looking back over my shoulder worried about landowners (or other) it's not worth it. (Plus, I don't want to lose my license.)

Do it right or not at all.

SH

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Location: Prattville, Alabama
Joined: 01/10/2004
Posts: 65
Disagree

Seroius Hunter,

I disagree. I hunt the same land that outfitters hunt with clients. Does this make it wrong. No! If it is Public land that means. "Public" I have never been guided ot outfitted, but have hunted the same land as guided clients. In fact the guides are more then cureous and helpful to tell me were they had seen game and in turn I also tell them were I have seen game. When I hunt (mostly in Alaska) and I run into a guided or outfitted party the guide and I talk to each other as were we are going to hunt and if the guide says that he was planning on hunting the same area I was, I adjust my hunting strategy as not to interfere with him and his clients. I have only run into one outfitter that gave me problems when I appraoched him and asked him his plan and after a mildly heated argument his clients were outraged at him and expressed to him that this is a free country and wished me the best of luck.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
got a question about hunting in outfitters areas?

I don't see where we necessarily disagree.

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