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Joined: 10/08/2014
Posts: 1
Getting it off my chest...

Growing up on a cattle ranch in montana, and having lived here in Utah for the last 10 years, I've seen my share of wilderness and backcountry travel. I also spray weeda for the state of idaho during the summer months in some of the off the grid areas of unit 17, unit 21, and the Frank Church Wilderness. So many times- I'd say AT LEAST 4 times a year average, I'll find an elk, mule deer, or bear during the hunting season that has been very obviously gut shot. As I hunt to supplement my family's grocery cache, it disgusts me to see this type of behavior. It sickens me to see fat, unfit people in the backcountry making noise, leaving trash, and only there because of a motorized vehicle or some poor mule. If you cannot make it on your own or into the backcountry, then you should not be there. Period. Further, these majestic animals should not be degraded by one of these people. Period. Regarding the poor shots, today I saw the reason why. I was at the Lee Kay Range to play with a .338 Lapua brought to me by a friend retiring from the military (certainly not my hunting rifle), and was flabbergasted to see fat, out of shape men. Zeroing the rifle at 100 yds, I was dumbfounded by each of the people flanking me that did not know how to zero their scope. One of the men was soon replaced by another that had purchased .308 ammo instead of .300 wm! He had never shot his rifle before and was "leaving Friday to go shoot a deer".  These people were there at the range to be in the woods soon. These are the people making the bad shots. Anyway, I'm just getting this off my chest. It bothers the heck out of me.

buckykm1's picture
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Location: Vicksburg, Mi
Joined: 11/24/2010
Posts: 366
Help

Maybe rather than Bitching about the guys at the Range, not knowing what they were doing, you could have went over and offered some help, not everyone is a expert, everyone has to learn some how.

just saying, they probably would have appreciated your help.

Kevin

Critter's picture
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Location: Western Colorado
Joined: 03/26/2009
Posts: 4422
Welcome to the forum.  Your

Welcome to the forum. 

Your observations are very interesting, but a lot of them can be found anywhere you want to look.  I would say that the majority of hunters are not in the shap that they should be for hunting.  Getting into mountain shape takes time and that is one thing that a lot of weekend hunters just don't have. 

The .308 ammo instead of .300WSM can be a common mistake if they were sitting next to each other on the shelf.  I havae even seen where someone has swapped .300 WSM ammo into another box to keep from paying the extra money, then the person that gets the box for the .300 WSM finds out too late that it now contains .308 ammo. 

I think that the shooters that don't know how to sight in a scoped rifle may just be a story.  That is unless the shooters purchased a new combo and the scope was supposed to be bore sighted for 100 yards and it wasn't.  Perhaps that is why they were having problems. 

I also agree that perhaps you should of offered them your assistance or at least told the range officer what was going on so someone didn't get hurt. 

It is also interesting where you said that they were going out this Friday to kill a deer, Utah's rifle deer hunt doesn't start until the 18th.

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I'd agree that most who would

I'd agree that most who would identify themselves as hunters are upset to find gut shot animals in the field.  We ran across a field dressed cow elk this year that was about a week old, just left in the field.  That really gripes me!  Killed, dressed and left to rot.

Hold others accountable and maintain high expectations of behavior, especially when in the field.  But don't just criticize those you feel aren't up to your expectations.  Offer to help, try to educate, and share your experience with them in an effort to better the sport and reduce the objectionable behaviors.

Sometimes we have to vent to just to get it off our chest.  In a public forum it comes across a bit harsh, especially on your first post.  No worries though.  Most here would encourage you to continue to post, especially when you share about your hunts.  We all try to get out as much as life lets us, and to get to vicariously hunt through other's stories and pictures sure makes the hunting season more enjoyable when we're not out in the field.

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Location: Kuna, ID
Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 223
Yah.

I agree with Co meat hunter. We all get disgusted by some hunters out there and their hunting ethics. Be careful not to generalize. We do that in society enough already. I'm assuming the deer hunt you were talking about was for Idaho. I'm heading out this weekend my self. It will be a zoo. I do agree with giving people advice when you come upon some one who doesn't know what they are doing. Thus, when ever I hunt with a rookie or talk to a new hunter I kinda give them the run down on shot placement and taking care of the meat. We comment on that alot here. Also, don't prejudge people to easily when finding a dead animal that has gone to waste. I did this exact thing a year ago when I found a wasted 5x5 Mzl kill in CO. I was upset. How could they loose this elk in the snow and shot through the lungs. But thanks to some great advice by people on this fourum I relized I wasn't there, I didn't know the situation. The hunter may have been an idiot or he may not have been who's to say. Unless you were there and witnessed it you can't judge. We all have lost animals at one point or another. It's unfortunate but it happens especially in our early years. Hopefully those that do lose animals learn from it and improve upon it.

buffybr's picture
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Location: Montana, USA
Joined: 11/15/2007
Posts: 358
Out of shape, unknowledgable...

Unfortunatley, that's the real world.  I agree with your frustration, but we can't all be perfect... sad

BleuBijou's picture
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Location: Loveland , Colorado
Joined: 03/22/2010
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Fat

Hey, I am only Phat because I am not tall enough. I am only 6-4 and need to be about 6-7. Yes, I would need a draft horse to get back to the Wilderness. No, I don't own a OHV. I have seen the same things you describe. I can only say that we are very lucky to be able to do what we do and where we do it. I do the best job to leave our camp better then we found it. As far as sighting in a rifle, there needs to be more education there for sure. I have run into hunters that have never seen a elk live on the hoof and ask me what they look like... Which is quite alarming sharing the same mountain with them... I think it is better to bite the tongue and help out those who could use the help or education. There will be some that just don't give a damn. Hopefully that percentage is small.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 07/13/2011
Posts: 924
elk

BleuBijou wrote:

Hey, I am only Phat because I am not tall enough. I am only 6-4 and need to be about 6-7. Yes, I would need a draft horse to get back to the Wilderness. No, I don't own a OHV. I have seen the same things you describe. I can only say that we are very lucky to be able to do what we do and where we do it. I do the best job to leave our camp better then we found it. As far as sighting in a rifle, there needs to be more education there for sure. I have run into hunters that have never seen a elk live on the hoof and ask me what they look like... Which is quite alarming sharing the same mountain with them... I think it is better to bite the tongue and help out those who could use the help or education. There will be some that just don't give a damn. Hopefully that percentage is small.

 

Good example of why moose get mistaken for elk, and get shot. No need for it, and the fine should be huge for doing it.

TwoBear's picture
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Joined: 12/13/2010
Posts: 43
b

Sundancesurgical7 wrote:

Growing up on a cattle ranch in montana, and having lived here in Utah for the last 10 years, I've seen my share of wilderness and backcountry travel. I also spray weeda for the state of idaho during the summer months in some of the off the grid areas of unit 17, unit 21, and the Frank Church Wilderness. So many times- I'd say AT LEAST 4 times a year average, I'll find an elk, mule deer, or bear during the hunting season that has been very obviously gut shot. As I hunt to supplement my family's grocery cache, it disgusts me to see this type of behavior. It sickens me to see fat, unfit people in the backcountry making noise, leaving trash, and only there because of a motorized vehicle or some poor mule. If you cannot make it on your own or into the backcountry, then you should not be there. Period. Further, these majestic animals should not be degraded by one of these people. Period. Regarding the poor shots, today I saw the reason why. I was at the Lee Kay Range to play with a .338 Lapua brought to me by a friend retiring from the military (certainly not my hunting rifle), and was flabbergasted to see fat, out of shape men. Zeroing the rifle at 100 yds, I was dumbfounded by each of the people flanking me that did not know how to zero their scope. One of the men was soon replaced by another that had purchased .308 ammo instead of .300 wm! He had never shot his rifle before and was "leaving Friday to go shoot a deer".  These people were there at the range to be in the woods soon. These are the people making the bad shots. Anyway, I'm just getting this off my chest. It bothers the heck out of me.

First off people taking mules or motorized vehichles into the back country doesn't mean they shouldn't be there.  Thats nonsense.  I have seen several older hunters trying their best to get up in the mountains and enjoy a few more years of hunting while they still can.  If an 80 year old man drives his 4x4 up to his hunting spot, then more power to him, beats rotting in a nursing home.  Montana also has handicap vehicle use laws for disabled persons, I have no issue with that either.  People from combat injuries, accidents, and age have physical limitations, and if a vehicle helps them get in the woods, who am I or you to say they shouldn't be there? 

Secondly, there is no such thing as waste on the mountain.  I don't like injuried animals either, but animals not recovered are a bonanza to the critters who find them.  Because a human didn't collect the animal, certainly does not mean it is "wasted".  However, I definately agree the more effort and time and respect for animals pursued is in order.  I like to see the appropriate calibers used for species, I like to see our hunters come out with their distance/evelation stats taped on their guns.  If i have a hunter that has practiced, knows his drop range, and our guides all carry range finders, our odds of a clean shot go up dramatically. 

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