95 replies [Last post]
expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

Isn't it amazing now that Pelosi's in the hot seat that the whole detainee abuse issue just sort of vanished in the news? No more talk about pictures, no more talk about abuse, not even any talk about detainees. It just sort of went...pffffft...buried in the back pages.

If she was a Republican the news would be running this story up front 24/7 with talking head analysis and we'd probably be looking at congressional hearings. But instead, just as the story was getting legs, it just...sort of...pffffffft...

Did somebody send out a memo? Because it seems odd that all those competing news sources lost interest at the same time.

Offline
Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

Not vanished from my news sources at all, it's been 3 of the top stories for 5 days, even with a weekend summary of the week's developments of what's now called the Iraq torture scandal.

Some themes developing even on the big networks are,, it's now broadly known that often the reason for torture especially of high value targets was the desparate scramble to find an Iraq Al qaeda link. Cheney persolaly ordering extra torture when links weren't forthcoming. So much for ticking bombs.

The "suicide" death earlier this month in Egypt of one such detainee whom Cheney quoted often (until the prisoner recanted saying he was just saying anything to stop the torture)

Another thing being developed is a timeline. The Downing street memos, the yellow cake fail, and then the lack of Al qaeda link must have been driving people round the bend.

It's easy to see why Cheney has emerged from his undisclosed location complete with daughter in tow. More than any one most routes lead back to him and his office, and people aren't goint to take the fall for him.

Pelosi is a side show, some media fun to distract for a little while. The republicans have been without fresh meat for so long though they don't know how to tone it down. The very last thing they want is a full investigation. After all what did Pelosi do? If what they say is true, and we dont' by a long shot know that it is, what exactly did she do? She kept mum as a single member of the opposition party about unlawful activites of the majority party as she is legaly required to do. It's the doing of the torture that will be the crux.

I'm waiting for the photos, some have already leaked out of Australia, the vdideos too. I don't beleive they destroyed all 96 videos and there isn't one copy left. People are starting to talk, it's cover your butt time.

And remember it's one thing to say hold your breath for 40 seconds and another to hear the crying an whimpering and screaming of another human being who later died in the process. Then maybe interviews with the children and widow. And there's worse. Things so bad the moderator of this site deleted them for me even mentioning them.

So no. I don't think we've heard the worst. And I think when we get to the end of the story Pelosi is going to be a very tiny footnote.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

Are you as outraged about the victims of 9/11? The images of that poor woman jumping to her death to escape the flames still haunts me.

Are you as outraged about the beheadings of journalist?

Perhaps you are, but I don't see you writing about them with the same fevor as you do the topic of torturing terrorist.

cowgal's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

CVC, my thoughts exactly. We also have to remember that we were at war and war is not pretty. I find the idea that terrorists are entitled to more rights than the people they killed quite repulsive.

Pelosi lied or she's going senile. Either way she's going to have to fess up that she screwed up. She's dug herself into quite a hole.

Offline
Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

The difference between Pelosi and the Republicans Pogo is that she's the one denying and condemning it publicly, knowing all the while what was happening after having been briefed by the CIA. Republicans aren't denying anything. In answer to the other problem CVC he's made it clear in the past he's indifferent to American death and suffering. It's only that of terrorists or others he has sympathy for.

SoCoKHntr's picture
Offline
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1774
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?
cowgal wrote:
CVC, my thoughts exactly. We also have to remember that we were at war and war is not pretty. I find the idea that terrorists are entitled to more rights than the people they killed quite repulsive.

Pelosi lied or she's going senile. Either way she's going to have to fess up that she screwed up. She's dug herself into quite a hole.

You paint a broad brush over the people we invaded in two countries. While I don't necessarily have a great deal of sympathy for actual 'terrorists' I still feel as a what is supposed to be a civilized and just country we are better then that.

But, the second and greater issue when it comes to torture is this. Many people who were rounded up in sweeps in Iraq and Afghanistan by US forces and then detained and subsequently tortured were later released due to being found to have no connection to 'terrorism' or insurgent forces. In Iraq there were reported cases of rapes and sodomy of Iraqi women and children who were detained in addition to the well known pictures we've seen.

Wasn't one of the right ring rallying cry's the whole freedom for the oppressed people of those countries??? Well, we tortured and ostracized a good many innocent people over there as much as the right wingers on this board would like you to believe on 'evil bad guys' were harmed.

To me rationalizing the torture of innocents, especially women and children, who had nothing to do with 9/11 is repulsive and deplorable.

The place many Iraqi civilians found themselves is very reminiscent of the abused Vietnamese peasants during the Vietnam war. Where they were raped and killed by Viet Cong forces for helping the Americans and the next day raped and killed by American forces for helping the Viet Cong. Perpetually caught in the middle.

You on this board supporting torture and our actions in this country, how would you feel if your wife or child or husband was innocent of any wrong act but was tortured, raped, sodomized, or killed? Would you want pay back to the ones who did it?

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?
Quote:
Where they were raped and killed by Viet Cong forces for helping the Americans and the next day raped and killed by American forces for helping the Viet Cong

Ok, so let me get this straight. The Viet Cong came in on Monday and raped and killed someone. Then on Tuesday the Americans came in and raped and killed the same person?

They rose from the dead only to be killed again - damn, no wonder they are angry.

On a serious note. I have not seen it substantiated that Americans raped and sodimized women and children. I hear people with an anti-American or anti-war tout that as an illustration of America's evil, but I haven't seen it documented.

I am serious here, not trying to set you up. Please direct me to a place where I can see for a fact that these events occurred. If they did, then they are horrific and we should be outraged.

Thanks in advance.

SoCoKHntr's picture
Offline
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1774
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?
CVC wrote:
Quote:
Where they were raped and killed by Viet Cong forces for helping the Americans and the next day raped and killed by American forces for helping the Viet Cong

Ok, so let me get this straight. The Viet Cong came in on Monday and raped and killed someone. Then on Tuesday the Americans came in and raped and killed the same person?

They rose from the dead only to be killed again - damn, no wonder they are angry.

On a serious note. I have not seen it substantiated that Americans raped and sodimized women and children. I hear people with an anti-American or anti-war tout that as an illustration of America's evil, but I haven't seen it documented.

I am serious here, not trying to set you up. Please direct me to a place where I can see for a fact that these events occurred. If they did, then they are horrific and we should be outraged.

Thanks in advance.

CVC, try to not be so simplistic and concrete in your thinking, alright? You take what I said as if I meant this happened day to day over the span of the war. If you don't think that occurred, the peasants being caught in the middle and suffering brutality from both sides, educate yourself on that war.

Of course it's not fully substantiated, yet! You think the ones who perpetrated it didn't try to cover their tracks or were open to full disclosure of it??? There's going to be more evidence coming out I really do believe. Evidence you won't be able to write off as unsubstantiated.

cowgal's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?

So what you're saying SoCo is that you're accepting hearsay as proof? Left wing propaganda at its best.

SoCoKHntr's picture
Offline
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1774
Gee, Pelosi knew about waterboarding?
cowgal wrote:
So what you're saying SoCo is that you're accepting hearsay as proof? Left wing propaganda at its best.

No not at all.

What I am saying is that I don't share your simplistic and totally unrealistic view of war. In your world the bush admin was totally benevolent and wholesome and had Jesus on it's side when deciding to carry out war. And, any of it's actions from the top down to the bottom were such as those carried out by superman or captain America or rin tin tin or luke skywalker. Where the white shining light of goodness and justice prevailed and the innocent were given freedom and children were given candy bars.

In reality war even when waged in a true need is ugly and armies whether that's the US or the russkies, or Chinese, who the hell ever, have members that in this environment carry out inhuman and unconscionable acts. In this case we had an admin that authorized and then filtered down the message that these were inhuman 'ragheads' and the gloves are off, their inhuman 9/11 perps, so no need to have a conscience about what we do to them.

If you choose to be so naive that you think acts like this weren't committed by a portion of our forces that is your choosing to not participate in reality. For me it's a no brainer and the onus of the blame goes to the admin who put our forces into that position and secretly gave them those orders to carry that out.

People like you and CVC will choose to view America and the repub party like a young child views their daddy, as perfect without fault and totally just without the capability for wrong deeds or actions.

But again this just showcases your immature inability to look at anything honestly. For if Clinton, a 'lib' had taken the same action Bush did with the very exact same consequences down to torture, you cowgal would be one of the loudest decrying torture and calling for them to be tried.

I decry the actions enacted by bush and would just as vehemently decry them if a 'lib' had done them and that is the difference between me and you.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Hunter apologizes for Pelosi scarebitmasher408/29/2008 14:00 pm
Cheney More Popular Than Pelosiexpatriate1006/19/2009 10:19 am
Use this word insteadonzaman204/14/2010 06:35 am
2009 Vocabular Updatecowgal102/07/2009 18:41 pm
Omnibus bill - is it a go?cowgal1503/11/2009 23:32 pm