20 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01/14/2007
Posts: 24
Found it interesting!

In the last five years in New Mexico I've taken 3 goats and my son has taken one. When he took he he used the same gun as I used. All I've ever used there is my Remington 25-06, 115 gr., ballistic tip. The key is the ballistic tip. I swear by it for pronghorn hunts. It's a flat shooting bullet that I have no problem with it out to 400 yards. I know on my rifle it's dead on at 200, 1" low at 300. 3" low at 400 and 1" high at 100. I have never had to take a shot over 300. I took my second at 300, but my first was less than 75. The last was about 200. My sons was right at 150. I think you should be able to get within 300 or less on any goat. I've never had a problem and I'm a big guy so I not what you would call "stealthy". lol Try to stalk towards them with the sun at your back. Although they have unbelievable eye site, it's only eclipsed by their curiosity. If they are not sure what they are looking at they will sometimes stick around to find out what you are before taking off. Also get a large burlap cloth. We have gotten within 100-150 yards of goats with the sun at our back and walking behind a large burlap cloth. Like I said, sometimes their curiosity gets the best of them.

Give the ballistic tip a try at the range. I love it's accuracy and range and I think once you shoot it you will to.

Good luck. They are a fun hunt indeed. Thumbs up

Offline
Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01/14/2007
Posts: 24
Found it interesting!

As a side not on the ballistic tip. If you do end up taking a close range shot, they tend to be through and though, so be ready to take another one real fast. When I shot my 2nd goat broadside at 75 yards the ballistic tip went clean through. I had to put another one in him at an angle and it did a lot more damage. At a distance you won't have any problem with the ballistic tip doing damage, but at close range it has so much velocity and speed it takes a lot to stop it from going straight through.

Finally, if you are in a place that you are seeing a lot of goats and you just can't decide to take it or not just remember one thing. It took me a couple of years to figure this out. If you see a goat and you think. 'that's a good one" then it's probably just OK. When you see a "BIG" one you'll know it. You'll say HOLY #$%& and It will make your heart stop and your jaw drop. Look for bases as wide or wider that the eye and forks above the ears. Start with that and work up from there and you should end up with a really nice goat.

Offline
Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01/14/2007
Posts: 24
Found it interesting!

Just noticed you've already been. OH well. Congratulations on the buck. Maybe you can use the infromation on your next trip or somebody alse can.

By the way. Can't wait to see the pics?

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
Found it interesting!

bzzboyz,

I'm couroius about the trajectory of your load. You said 1" high @ 100, dead on @ 200, 1" low @ 300 and 3" low @ 400. Where do you get those figures?

According to the Nosler manual, their max velocity for the 115gr BT in a 25-06 is 3116fps. Figuring 3100 fps with Noslers book and a zero of 200yds I get 1.3" high @ 100 6.2" low @ 300 and 17.9" low @ 400yds?

Offline
Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01/14/2007
Posts: 24
Found it interesting!

I don't know fps from FBI. I just know what my rifle does and I go to the range a lot. I zeroed it out at 200 and thats how much adjustment I have to make on it at the distances I stated with a balistic tip. If I switch to a nosler tip, then it's pretty close to what you stated. But I do stand corrected a little. It's probably more like 3" at 300 and 6" at 400 now that I think about it, but I haven't taken a shot over 300 in the field in many a year.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Kentucky/ Colorado
Joined: 06/23/2005
Posts: 1740
Mig-Hunter's Montana Antelope

Here's Mig-Hunter's 2006 Montana Antelope....

PreviewAttachmentSize
Migda montana 2006 070.jpg
Migda montana 2006 070.jpg37.19 KB
Offline
Moderator
Location: Kentucky/ Colorado
Joined: 06/23/2005
Posts: 1740
Found it interesting!

Nice buck! Thumbs up

ndemiter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: lawrence, KS
Joined: 05/17/2007
Posts: 647
Re: Found it interesting!

the 25-06 is a good gun for critters like pronghorn, but the small bullet weight doesn't help for retaining energy or velocity at long range. as long as you hit what you're aiming for, it would do the job at 400 yards. however. it's just not a easy shot with light bullets. wind velocity changes dramatically across prairie country. it might be a light breeze where you're standing, but a heavy gust may be funneling from a coulee 150 yards between you and the goat. personally, i'd keep it inside of 250. another advantage of that, is that it's just an easyier shot.

you could switch it off for the good old .30 caliburs too. where maximum point blank range is 200 yards. (meaning, you're about 1" high at 100, center on for 200, and 3.5' low at 300... which means unfortunately, 11.75" low at 400 {this is for IMR 4895 charge of 47.5 gr and a 150 gr ballistic tip bullet... plus cci benchrest primers})

SoCoKHntr's picture
Offline
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1776
Found it interesting!
Don Fischer wrote:
bzzboyz,

I'm couroius about the trajectory of your load. You said 1" high @ 100, dead on @ 200, 1" low @ 300 and 3" low @ 400. Where do you get those figures?

According to the Nosler manual, their max velocity for the 115gr BT in a 25-06 is 3116fps. Figuring 3100 fps with Noslers book and a zero of 200yds I get 1.3" high @ 100 6.2" low @ 300 and 17.9" low @ 400yds?

That's what I was thinking when I read that. I've heard good things about the 25-06 and I am no expert but those numbers would make it the flattest shooting hunting round I've ever heard of. That would give you a dead on hold out past four hundred yards on an elk heck an antelope. bzzboyz I agree with Don you are mistaken.

ndemiter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: lawrence, KS
Joined: 05/17/2007
Posts: 647
Found it interesting!

i've found the factory tables to be less than helpful in real world application. i should state that i've never shot paper at 300+ yards. but i've shot a few woodchucks. accuracy of factory data seems to be close (+ or - an inch or two, maybe at the long ranges.) my load tables tell me that a 150 gr hornady interlok, 48.7 grains of imr 4895 out of a 30-06 gives me ( an estimated) 2975 fps. at the muzzle. i use the muzzle velocity to calculate the rest for my self. (although actual is probably closer to 2850 fps)

you can determine your energy in foot/pounds by (1/2)Mass*velocity^2 (keeping in mind that one grain is approximately equal to .0645 of a gram, and you need to divide your answer by the accelleration due to gravity to cancel the unit of newtons.) (all my work was done in metric, including velocity) then i apply a deceleration model to the projectile, including various hydraulic influences such as the fluid viscosity of air (the bulk modulus of air and young's modulus of the bullet material ((copper coated lead!))). (in reality, every figure (for different loads) is going to have a standard deviation from the mean by about one order of magnitude, or a factor of 10. so the value may be

this is due to the fact that you are assuming things like air pressure, the distance of the barrell from the ground, even the build of the shooter. {flesh behaves as a fluid under pressure... and fluids have a precarious way when it comes to pressure... e.g. making this a very complicated problem}.

but, since i like to hunt, and college is boring, i spent the majority of my time in two upper level physics classes classifying these forces in order to make a complicated ballistics model that can be used in conjunction with charts and tables of air pressure, shooter weight(accounting for the vector math forces) and temperature to account for this. my original hope was to be able to apply this to all projectiles, but in my testing of the model, it was really not practical, it in fact took me weeks to do a single example, so i calculated some similar values for instance the 30-06, and the .308, and even my .41 rem mag for the fun of it. even though the applied forces were all wrong.

the data from the model i produced is similar to other data readilly available online. however notable differences occur at close ranges from 0-75 yards, and long distance between 300-500 yards. factory tables are good ESTIMATES for 100-250 yard shots. each distance being the cutoff point of accuracy.

keep in mind, the figures you get from industry websites, and handbooks are designed with specific intentions like to show the fastest muzzle velocity coupled with the highest energy values. their data is entry-level statistical optimization (which is the corect mathmeatical term for their information) so sorry for the rant, but their numbers aren't necessarily correct, they tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to know.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Inter4esting letter/ RED lAKE Nation, MNbrketo007/30/2006 08:37 am
a lil over par and a 3 pt. buck?bigbucks8209/22/2006 16:09 pm
Multitudesjeffalaska309/28/2004 22:27 pm
Archery efficiency courseCa_Vermonster301/03/2011 12:53 pm
Bidens own wordscsumerall110/21/2008 23:41 pm