12 replies [Last post]
Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
Favorite bullet's

In another post about bullet tip's, the conversation seem's to want to gert away from "what happen's to the tip: to "I like". I think we got a good explanation of what might happen to the tip. There likely are forces we don't understand relating to pressure on the bullet surface's. It was very interesting.

Now a few guy's have started talking about bullet construction; more important than where the tip goes, if anywhere. I have relied on Hornady and Speer hot core bullet's for so long, I don't even know the name's for all these new thing's.

What exactly is an accu-bond bullet? Is it in reality nothing more than an old Speer hot core? And Hornady has an SST, or something, what's that? With the exception of the,,,,solid copper (?) bullet's that have little petel's that open up, the core of all bullet's is lead. I'm not convinced that anything much better has come along. Also I concider 300 yds a very long shot and the bullet's of lead capabile of that and still preforming properly are to many to count. Even the catrtidge's are to many to count.

I did, year's ago, some bullet expansion test's into wet newspaper, maybe not the best but equal for all. I tested 165 gr Speer, Hornady, Sierra and Nosler. I didn't find any advantage to the Nosler's at 100 yds. The front part sheered the jacket at the partition leaving a plug. I've heard that doesn't happen any more. The Hornady, Pre interloc, retained 86% of it's weight but the core was loose in the jacket. Didn't seperate. The Speer retained 86% and the core and the jacket were tight, the good hot core bullet. The Sierra was a hollow point and the point closed up and the bullet bent. 100% weight retention but no mushroom.

That probally wasn't fair to Sierra but my experience with them on game is they kill like lighting but are way to distructive. One bullet, Sierra, I used on a small bear didn't make it thru the fat layer front on. That was the 140 gr from a 7mm Rem Mag. Using the same bullet in a 7x57 on deer, there was tremendious destruction inside. Same result's with they're 160 gr in the 7mm Rem Mag.

As a result of these thing's my bullet's of choice for many year's have been Speer hot core and Hornady Spire Point's, now with interloc. I've never had a bullet fail and have shot deer, elk and black bear with them.

In my 243 I use Hornady V-Max and Nosler Balistic tip varmit bullet's and they blow up wonderfully well. It's not just the thin jacket and soft lead. It's that tip that get's driven back into the core like a splitting maul. I believe that wqas the problem with the ballistic tip hunting bullet's earily on. But I don't know as I don't use them. Whatever that tip is made of likely doesn't matter. So I have spent most of the last 30 yrs shooting Speer hot core or Hornady Spire Point's, without failure and without complaint. I quit Speer's year's ago when Vernon sold out as the new company, Omark, was into peddling product's and not customer's need's. I don't know that the quality of bullet's went down hill, just the quality of service. To this day, for hunting bullet's I rely on Hornady's for big game. The secrete is choosing the right cartridge and bullet for the game your hunting. Using some kind of super priemum bullet does not turn a ,,,25-06 into a 30-06. And I use a 25-06 a lot.

So what do you guy's use and why? OOPS! no spell check!!!!!!!!

Offline
Joined: 09/23/2004
Posts: 137
Favorite bullet's

First off, let me comend your original post. It seems to be difficult these days to find coherent writing. Your post and subsequent question was very intelligent and well written.

I'm a fan of Nosler bullets myself. On big game such as Elk, Moose, Caribou, etc. I stick with the ole reliable partition. All of my testing has been field testing. The partition has never failed me.

For small game such a varmiting I use the Nosler ballistic tips. Accurate, ballistically superior, and make stuff go poof.

In my Deer gun (280 Rem) I shoot 140 grain Sierra boattail spitzers. I started with them, and have had excellent luck. If it aint broke.....

For target shooting I use a variety of bullets. Sierra matchkings and Nosler Ballistic tips are the most common. Berger custom bullet get sent down range quite frequently as well.

The new Accubond, or Trophy Bonded bullets are hot right now. I've not had any experience with them myself. They claim to bond the Lead core to the copper jacket in some manner. All that is pointless to me, my question is: How do they perform when it manners?

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
Favorite bullet's

Thank you. I think that those of us that seem to voice opinion's a lot publicly, have some kind of responsibility to do so in a way that reflect's reason and prudence. That we know what can be done and what shouldn't be done, should be passed along. I am not an Elmer Keith fan but mostly he gave advice that was reasonable and prudent. He did never claim a 24 or 25 cal was an elk cartridge.

Now, it sound's like the Accubond is like the Speer Hot Core. I got a letter many year's ago from Speer and they explained how the bullet was made. As I recall, the inside of the jacket is fluxed and the core inserted as a plug. it's then heated to just melting point and run into a form die. The result is the core is soldered to the jacket. There is no seperation with a "Hot Core" bullet. If that is what the "Accubond" is, I'll surely try some.

I'm sure you know this, that 280 of your's is likely the most versitile and under rated cartridge there is. If I could have but one rifle, the 280 would be it.

Offline
Location: Montana
Joined: 02/13/2005
Posts: 409
Favorite bullet's

I have been shooting Nosler partitions since i started hunting and I have never had one fail me,last year i killed two elk with accubonds and they performed just like a partition.Elmer did claim that a .44 Mag was a great deer cartridge...

Offline
Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Favorite bullet's

I also was a great fan of the Hot-Cor but, my new favorite rifle isn't.
What I saw in the Accubonds was a bullet with similar construction. A controlled expansion jacket. A tip that would not deform and a very impressive BC.
They shoot well through my new favorite rifle with very impressive grouping. The end result is, I now use two bullets for elk. The Accubond and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.
I might have to put my 30-06 back in commission, just to shoot up the several boxes of Hot-Cor and Partitions sitting on the self, collecting dust.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
Favorite bullet's

Nonya, good old Elmer. Claims the 44 is a good deer cartridge but the 270 or was it the 7mm mag, was a good varmit cartridge.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Favorite bullet's

I tried a few of Elmer Keith's 44 mag loads in my Super Blackhawk.
Oneof these loads converted that Blackhawk into a flame thrower with a deafening report and a mule kick recoil. Getting back on site was no quick task. A rather challenging load. I believe it was 22gr of 2400 powder.
I can see how he would think a 270win to be a varmint round.

Offline
Location: Montana
Joined: 02/13/2005
Posts: 409
Favorite bullet's

lol fuzzy...That man had some strange ideas about handloads.

Offline
Joined: 09/23/2004
Posts: 137
Favorite bullet's

Thanks

Oh yes I definately know the capabilities of my 280 Rem. I agree that it is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. It was reduced to the footnotes for quite awhile, but seems to be making a come back recently. Most don't know this but the 280 is within a few hundred feet per second of the 7 mag with less recoil. The 280 is a very accurate cartridge. I love mine, and wouldn't part with it for anything. If I had to pick only one chambering (perish the thought) it would be the 280.

My 280 is like an old friend. I don't seem to use it as much as I used to. Yet, every time I pick it up and carry it into the field it feels like going home again. She's not the best shooter I own, but she's never let me down when it counted.
Whether it be an antelope or an elk I feel confident that when I pull the, way too heavy, 4 pound trigger that something is going in the freezer.

Someone once asked me what rifle he should buy. He was considering the normal suspects 270, 30-06, 300 mag, 7 mag etc. I replied: find a 280 Rem. and you'll never regret it. I still say that it was sound advice.

Hey, another versatile yet under appreciated cartridge is the 264 win mag. Well, I'll leave that for another time.

Anonymous
Favorite bullet's

I too started testing bullets some years ago! It seems as though back then, that those who other than factory types used some sort of watered down or oil down newspaper material. However, in those tests it didn't tell the whole story of what would happen if that bullet shot, suddenly were to hit heavy bone etc.

I use a test that will best push a bullet to its limits, by using 3/4 inch plywood in 1 foot squares, with 1.5 inch oak boards behind it and a piece of 10 gauge steel in front of all this, not to mention a piece of 1/2 conveyor belt to similate animals skin. All this is back up by a 50 pound block of modeling clay to catch the bullet and then I make a cast of the bullet cavity for record sake and log it in a journal.

I am a big fan of those who attended the Ole School shall I say, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith and a dozen others who are now gone to the happy hunting grounds. I think and believe "bigger is better" most of the time.

Bullet wise I like the Nosler partitions both old & new along with their Accubond bullet and the Speer TBBC bullets. Not to mention the Swift A Frames for going after big game that can bit back. I target shoot with Sierra bullets because they are very very accurate as opposed to most others on the market today.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Favorite bullet's

Interbonds, Accubonds and TBBC in .277 and .308 cover all of the hunting performance I would ever need. Tried an awful lot of different bullets before settling on these three. I do keep a box of partitions around for the '06.
Have any of you 30 mag shooters tried the 200gr Accubonds? They are awesome performers. They fly like a 180gr and hit like a freight train. Great for those 200 to 350yd. shots.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Bullet'sDon Fischer1607/26/2006 08:25 am
casting bullet'sDon Fischer710/31/2009 18:10 pm
Starter ammo for young shooter'sDon Fischer612/23/2010 09:19 am
Killing a pigDon Fischer1101/05/2007 09:13 am
Selecting primer'sDon Fischer601/14/2010 13:33 pm