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Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

The outfitter I work for and every outfitter I know, 7mm mag is bottom, 338 mag top of the line. Come with anything less and you dont hunt unless the outfitter or guide are nice enough to let you borrow something they have. But why bother listening to professional hunters right Brick Wall,)

elkkill06's picture
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Fruita Colorado
Joined: 02/02/2009
Posts: 1934
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great guide and outfitters out there. But most of them are not by any means professional hunters. If a guide is going to lone me a gun I am not comfortable with and have not shot a lot, he would be better off letting me shoot my smaller caliber. I personally feel that after growing up with my dad and uncle both guiding hunters and watching these guys shoot they could not even handle shooting old .308 and .300 savages. They would flinch so bad they could not hit a deer a 60 yards. We can argue this for years, but if you can't shoot well all the energy foot pounds is not going to help that elk die any faster when you shoot him in the guts or the legs.

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Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

I have the secret to getting over recoil, get over it.
I know a woman that hunts every year in Africa with 375 HandH and 416 Rigby , she is a firearms instructor. Another gal i know regularly handles not just one round but boxes of rounds a day with 30.06 heck she shoots a enfleid with steel butt plate. Both women practice regular off hand shooting with both the large bores. The key is both shoot proper technique and both shoot alot. Both these gals are under 130 pounds, both practice alot and do so in hunting postitions. So i really laugh when i hear men complain of recoil.

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Location: Canada
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 323
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

Romey.........at the risk of putting noses out of joint, I have to agree with you.

Why are guys such a pack of wimps these days? There is no doubt that a lot of things factor into perceived recoil.....bullet weight and velocity of course, stock dimensions and fit are very improtant. But when all things are said and done, a great deal of 'kick' and how it affects you is between the ears. Yes, a lot of it is psychological.

My wife shoots a .338 Win. Mag. and has for years. She is 5'3" and that is a hell of a lot smaller than a lot of the big strapping hunters we guide who snivel and flinch with everything from the 06 on up. She considers a .25-06 to be a popgun ............ a zero kicker.

No one can tell me that shooting a big cartridge like the .378 Weatherby is pleasant without a muzzlebrake, but the majority of cartridges used by most hunters should not be a problem...............the key is lots of practice and most importantly, get off the stinking bench and shoot from field positions.

Sadly, despite all the lip flapping I see on the internet, very few hunters do a lot of shooting.......and I mean very few. The majority are lucky if they get to the range a couple of times a year and put 20 rounds or so through anything that has a barrel. Actual field experience is decreasing at an alarming rate. Now it is all about bells and whistles and owning the latest range estimating scope with a 56mm objective on a rifle with a 30 inch barrel in the latest beltless wonder cartridge.

I guess I should not be too surprised that real riflemen are few and far between these days, so are hunters who do not expect 5 star accommodations, an open bar at night, satellite phone, satellite internet and a card reader for e-mailing pictures every night and satellite TV to watch 'the game'.

My apolgies to the few of you out there that can shoot and handle recoil......and those who legitimately can't handle it due to injury, disease or advanced years. Big smile

Bull Buster's picture
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Location: Nebraska
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 167
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

I think with new bullet technology a hunter should hunt shoot what ever they are comfortable with as long as it leagal. I shot a 30-06 at elk and have killed 12 elk in the last 15 years of hunting. The last 6 shots taken at elk have killed 5 bulls. I like my 30-06 because it is lighter (to carry) than several big magnum rifles. Recoil don't bother me but, When I'm deer hunting here in Nebraska I shoot a 22-250 and kill at least one deer every year with it.

There is a guy that elk hunts with us and in my opinion the best elk hunter in our camp shoots a .243. I can not remember the last year he has not killed a bull and it is not uncommon for him to shot 320 class bulls (that is a large bull where we hunt-Colorado unlimited unit) Do I think elk are tough?? You better beleive it. Toughest animal in North America but, as in all things there are limitations and it is up to the hunter to make an ethical decission of what he or she is limited to.

I agree with Makwa as far as hunters not practicing with their rife enough. I am guilty as far as shooting my hunting rifle (I may fire 10 shots before taking it hunting) but, I do plink alot with my .204 and .17hmr. They are about the same as shooting my hunting rifles except for the drop and drifting of the bullets. As long as you know how to compensate when you are in the feild hunting you should be golden.

Location: Butte, MT
Joined: 01/02/2006
Posts: 234
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

I've never done it, but I know of a couple of people that frequently kill elk with a .243. Like somebody else said, though, take relatively close shots (under 200 yds), and don't shoot unless the animal is broadside. I really don't think there's a problem with hunting elk with a 25-06 as long as you use your head and not take questionable shots... of course you should do that no matter what weapon you're using.

Beyond all that, though (and I'm not a balistics chart buff, so I really don't know) how much more umph does a .270 really have over a 25-06 anyway? People use .270's all the time and nobody thinks anything of it.

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Location: Canada
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 323
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

What constitutes a suitable elk cartridge and bullet combination is completely dependent upon what you are going to ask of it.

If you can and will exercise complete discretion as to the shots you take, without fail, and can call your shots with complete certainty when you do pull the trigger, then elk can certainly be taken cleanly with bullet/cartridge combos that are not normally considered to be adequate elk medicine. It is all up to the individual and what he/she is willing to pass on.

There is also a big difference between a low cost hunt somewhere for an everyday freezer elk (cows/young bulls etc.) where you can afford to pass on opportunities that are beyond the capabilities of what you are carrying, because you will probably get another chance.............and a very expensive hunt a long ways away from home for something that takes your breath away.

On the first hunt I might be seen with a .25-06 or a .270 in my hands, but I can guarantee you I will be packing something that will reach out and touch someone in the second scenario. If my only opportunity for that once in a lifetime and hard to save for bull comes at 350 yards, quartering towards me......I know my custom .340 Weatherby (Sako action) and I are up to the job.

I have taken a fair number of moose and elk with the .25-06, but I in no way would suggest that it is an ideal cartridge for hunting either. Just because I have done it, doesn't mean it's so.

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Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

The problem is most people hunting DONT have the common sense or the ethics to pass up a over long shot on a large bull or even deer for that matter when they KNOW they are outgunned. Anyone can sit here and say they do and some do yes but Id question that person every time. Its simply dumb to not use a caliber thats not suited for the hunt your on. Just as its ignorance to pish paw the high tech rounds because of cost.
I say this with any many times i have been guiding a hunter and I had to be the follow upshot because the hunter made a poor shot, didnt listen to me and wait or cam under gunned. I have seen more then a couple deer and elk to include one big horn with busted leg, several "head shooters" that left a animal with its jaw hanging off and recovered a couple elk that had previos round in the vitals that the animal lived,one caliber being one of the small rounds mentioned here and it WAS IN THE VITALS that appeared to break a rib, lodge in a lung and the animal was still alive , very sick and gangrene had set it but come on, use some common sense.
I use a 300 win mag, I have nothing against people using something else, its just that im NEVER under gunned for any reasonable field situation nor am I over gunned, you never feel recoil in the field if you do more then fart a couple rounds at the range then go out hunting.
Makwa said it best, "just becuase its been done doesnt mean it should be"

elkkill06's picture
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Location: Fruita Colorado
Joined: 02/02/2009
Posts: 1934
Elk Hunt with 25-06?

Hey Romey I know and understand where you are coming from on this, but not every animal is the same and reacts the same when hit and certainally not every load or bullet reacts the same. I shoot all the time and right now I shoot 7MM RUM I truley love this weapon. I use to shoot a 7MM Mag in the Brownig A-bolt Meddallion. In 2004 I had a 360 inch bull at 398 yards and shot him quartering towards me, it hit him so hard it knocked him completely over backwards. There was a cloud of dust that came off that bull that looked like a bomb went off. I started heading over to the bull when I noticed the bull was laying there with his head up, all of a sudden the bull jumped up and ran off. It was right before dark, so had started looking for him the next day. Three days later I caught up with this bull and put him down for good. The reason I am telling you this story is that the bullet hit the bull right in front of the shoulder at the base of the neck, perfect shot at that angle, the bad thing is the bullet went down the side of the outside of the bulls ribs under the shoulder. It had enough energy to completely knock the bull off his feet, but the bullet did not go the direction it should have gone. I also seen a guy shoot a small spike buck at 90 yards with a 300 Wheatherby Mag with a 220 gr bullet and not even go completely through the little bucks spine. I have also seen a giant 387 bull that was estamated by the CDOW to be 1200 pounds on the hoof go straight down when shot with a 30-06 with a 150gr bullet drop right in his tracks at 326 yards being hit the same way I had shot that big 360 bull. No matter how much wind you keep blowing there are a lot of poeple out there that if they start flinching at the range they WILL flinch in the field. I personnally have put over 1350 rounds through my 7MM RUM since I bought it in 2006 and 1000's of rounds through my 22-250 and practice shots out past 850 yards. Most of your regular hunters go out shoot there gun 5 or 6 times to make sure there gun is on and go hunting. I have had the privilage of seeing a lot of animals taken over the years and I still believe shot placement over energy foot pounds

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Location: Pipestone, MN
Joined: 01/02/2008
Posts: 117
Elk Hunt with 25-06?
AFHunter wrote:
Elkkill06, thanks! I agree, you don't need a cannon to effectively hunt/kill big game. It seems as though most hunters believe that the bigger the gun, the easier the kill. I personally believe in proper shot placement with the right bullet. I did some research and the Barnes has a BC of .335 which is in my opinion, plenty to take an Elk. Since I'm very comfortable shooting my 25-06, I believe I'll stick with it for this years hunt as long as I'm able to work up a load shooting MOA. In the past, I've had difficulty getting Barnes bullets to stabalize out of my .25, but who knows, with all the advances I've been reading about, maybe this time will be different. On a side note, I knew a guy up in Wyoming who claimed to kill Elk with a .243 shooting Barnes X. Never saw him do it, but he wasn't the type to tell "tall stories" either. Anyways, thanks for all the advice fella's.

Don't confuse BC with SD (sectional density).
BC only tells you how fast a bullet loses it velocity, SD basically gives you in relative terms the bullet penetrative qualities. However, the premium bullets give an edge here.

Now for the rest,,,A small caliber will get it done if you are willing to keep range limited and shot angle ideal. But the smaller the caliber, the less margin for error. I always like to allow for a little "murphy's law" too!

I know energy isn't everything, but it certainly helps!!!

Me personally, I prefer and look an Elk round as one that is at least 7mm if not .30 cal and has at least a point blank range of 250 yds. And at PBR, have terminal ballistics of 2000 fps and 2000 fpe with a bullet that has a SD of atleast .260 and prefer .270 thru .290.
If you can limit yourself with less, then I won't say you're wrong, I just reserve to disagree.

Now with that said, I agree that recoil/ flinchitis can be ovecome with practice and learning good funtdamentals.

Dave

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