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GooseHunter Jr's picture
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Draws and Preference points??

I had a thought the other night.  Here in Colorado when you apply for a PP as your first choice and then a tag for your second choice.  Does that mean that all the people that choose a tag for their first choice are getting  a chance at that tag before me and then if there are any leftover after that then do I with a second choice get a chance.  What I am getting at as I did not draw a private land only deer tag this year....I put in for a PP first and then the tag second.  35 tags avaliable 38 people put in, and I did not draw but it was really my second choice.

Am I making any sense here?

exbiologist's picture
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I hear you

And yes, you are guaranteed to get nothing when you try to draw something that draws out first choice.  In Colorado, the license quotas are filled hunt by hunt, not hunter by hunter.  What I mean is, in some states you are issued a random number when they receive your application.  In those states, when your number is up, the computer then tries to fill your choice in order of your preference.  

In Colorado, lets say for your hunt code, there were 35 tags available for the public, 38 people put in, and 10 of them had 1 preference point.  So, those with the one preference point were guaranteed the tag, leaving 25 tags for 28 people to be allocated by random drawing. This license would never make it to second choice, assuring you of getting nothing with that choice.

Let's look at two real examples:  DM007O2R, when you look at the draw summary you can see that the tag drew out during the 2nd choice round.  There were 500 tags, 387 were drawn by residents during 1st choice and 24 by nonresidents and 6 more by landowners.  That left 83 tags to be drawn by 333 applicants in 2nd choice (you need the hunt recap to see that part).  The hunt recap will also show you that 1 person used 5 points, 5 used 4 points, 12 used 3 points 18 used 2 points and 43 used 1 point.  The nonresidents were a little smarter with only 4 using 1 or 2 preference points.

Ok, another example, this time it draws out in first choice: DM010O2R.   On the draw summary you can see 230 first choice applicants for 40 tags.  O tags made it 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice.  So using one of those choices would be a waste, but 50 people put in for it anyway (hunt recap, not draw summary for that stat).

Now look at DM018O2R:  There were 1300 licenses in the quota, 638 and were drawn first choice, 289 2nd choice, 60 3rd choice and 12 4th choice, leaving 299 as leftovers.  You would have been guaranteed a tag here with any choice.

 

COMeatHunter's picture
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Go for the tag...

As a practical suggestion, go for the tag you're saving for with your 1st choice on the app.  If you don't get the tag, you'll get a preference point and can use it the following year when trying to draw your tag.  If you do end up with the tag--well that's the result we're all looking for in the end anyway!

Saving and collecting points in Colorado is a losing battle, just go for the hunt and hope for the best.

exbiologist's picture
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I don't agree with that strategy

I would agree with that if I hunted the same unit every year and it required a first choice to draw.  But if you're looking to accumulate a point or two for a better hunt ( I think accumulating 10 or more points is a total waste of time given the number of quality options in the 1-6 point range), it makes sense to know how to use the system to get a point and a tag.  Also, if I hunted the same unit every year, and it went to leftovers, I'm also wasting my opportunity to hunt a better unit in the future.  But, if you're comfortable hunting in the same place, then go for it.  For myself, I'm always looking for greener pastures and enjoy the challenge of a new place almost every year, or I'm always trying to maximize the value of my current preference points.  I wouldn't utilize a strategy like that, but like I said, I don't have a set unit that I'm always looking at hunting.  And also, if you know you're running a chance of not drawing, then you need to understand the odds of pulling 2nd choice or later tags in other units.

COMeatHunter's picture
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To PP, or not to PP, that is the question

So...you'd recommend choosing a PP over a 1st choice hunt code to accumulate points?  If I have 1 point why not put in for the 2-3 point hunt I am looking for (or 4-5 point hunt for that matter)?  I probably won't get the tag, but if I do...WooHoo...it feels like I just stole a great hunt.  If I simply put in for a PP, I have absolutely no chance of getting a tag for the hunt I'm saving for.  You don't have to put in for the same hunt every year, or worse, a consistent leftover tag as a first choice (which isn't working the point system very well).  Put in for the hunt you're saving for as a first choice and let the luck of the draw be what it is.

That said, I would agree, one needs to understand the point system, the 2nd through 4th choice odds, and the many good hunts that can be drawn with these choices to be able to maximize hunting opportunities.

GooseHunter Jr's picture
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Well I am almost to the

Well I am almost to the amount of points I need to draw for my unit of choice..  I was gonna cash in next year , but I was approcahed by a friend who has some great access to the unit I am intersted in so I think I am just gonna have to wait two years...I hoope and see if I can get rid of these points.  I want to get rid of them and then start going on hunts where it may only take one or two points to draw. 

Here is another scenario....say I have 9 points and my dad had six and I put in for a unit that takes nine and we go as a group when and if I drew whould my dad also??  Reason I ask is my dad does not have as many as I do and he is getting up there and his hunting years are numbered.  I do not know if we would be able to hunt the same unit at the same time....I am sure he would tag along regardless.

exbiologist's picture
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group apps

Group apps use the applicant with the fewest number of points.  You will all lose all of your points if you draw, but  you can't draw until your lowest point holder has the minimum number of points.  So, if you have 9 and dad has six, and you are trying for a 10 point unit that is not suffering from point creep, then it should take 4 more years before you are theoretically able to draw, plus one additional year to guarantee it.

Critter's picture
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Isn't playing the point game

Isn't playing the point game fun?:\\\\:D/    I cashed in 17 antelope points this year on a unit that last year took 14 so I figured that it was a guaranteed tag but you never know.  Next year I'll cash in 15 deer points on a better than average unit, and then the year after I'll cash in all my 16 elk points on a great hunt. (I hope). 

I was just reading on another forum that in Utah you lose all your points if you draw on any of your choices which is a drag, but then they are on a bonus point system that I hate since somebody with 0 points can draw a tag before I do with 10 which has happened. 

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I'm happy hunting my local

I'm happy hunting my local unit every year. I don't have to travel to hunt, and I get meat in the freezer every year. Isn't that what hunting is all about?

 

Too many are hung up on trophy's now.

GooseHunter Jr's picture
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Not all about a trophy....

Still Hunter wrote:

I'm happy hunting my local unit every year. I don't have to travel to hunt, and I get meat in the freezer every year. Isn't that what hunting is all about?

 

Too many are hung up on trophy's now.

 

I am in no means a trophy hunter.  I just want one good bull on my before I have to hang them up.  I actually prefer to shoot cow elk.....they eat so much better.  I am wanting to get rid of my points and hunt a decent unit every other year or so.

Critter's picture
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I have turned into a trophy

I have turned into a trophy hunter over the years since I don't need that much meat in the freezer.  But one of the best tasting elk that I have ever shot was a 7x6 bull that is now hanging on my wall.  One of the worse was a young cow, but somebody had put a rifle round through here sometime in the spring or summer and it was just healed up when I shot her, perhaps that is the reason that the meat wasn't that good.  Other than that I usually get one or two cows every year that I pass most of the meat out to family members that don't hunt but you can pick up a cow tag every year along with preference points. 

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