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cscott711's picture
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Do you consider high fence game ranches as actual hunting?

I for one do not.  I do believe it is killing, but not hunting.  Sure, you have to have some sort of limited skill set to be successful even in an enclosed game ranch, but I don't hold it anywhere near the level of a free range hunt.

Hunting to me begins with the pursuit of a free range animal.  One that has the opportunity to go anywhere it's feet can carry it.  There is no fence holding the animal in.  No boundary it cannot cross.  

There is no guaranteed success with hunting.  I don't understand the mindset that makes one think they really accomplished something by harvesting an animal behind a high fence.

I can see the enjoyment in watching relatively unpressured mature animals at close proximity or perhaps to enjoy the camaraderie amongst family or friends.  However, if the intent is to go and kill a "trophy" animal and hold it at the same esteem as those who harvest free-range animals, then I just don't get it.

I bring all of this up because of an acquaintance who recently killed a fallow buck and had him mounted.  He was telling me the story of his experience and the 500 acre enclosure it was on and it just came off as shooting fish in a barrel to me.  He was up there on a pig hunt and then saw some fallow deer running around so he asked if he could shoot one.  The guide told him the price and then he just snuck up a little closer and shot it.  He told the story as if he was so proud of his accomplishment and I just didn't get it.

Again, these are just MY opinions and thoughts.  

 

CVC
CVC's picture
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So, someone who climbs a

So, someone who climbs a mountain in New Zeland to take a Tahr should not be proud of their accomplishment because the animal could not escape because it is on an island and is non-native to the country?

High fence hunting varies in difficulty and to each their own.  If he was proud of the deer and was my friend, I'd be happy for him and congratulate him (and mean it).

cscott711's picture
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I didn't say anything

I didn't say anything negative about non-native species.  However I would say that if the island were substantially smaller than the typical home range of that species, then I wouldn't be proud of that accomplishment.  What enjoyment is there when the animal has no where to go and if you keep after him long enough, you'll get him?  I like not knowing if I'll ever see my quarry again.  It adds to the excitement and overall hunting experience.  

You're right, to each their own.  Whatever makes them happy, but hunting an animal that has no where to go isn't for me and is killing, not hunting in its true sense.  

Perhaps, the only exception in my eye is if the high fence ranch encompasses thousands upon thousands of acres.  Well beyond the typical home range of most every species except migratory species.  Under that set of circumstances, I would believe it would be just about as close to free range hunting as you can get.  Except of course, that the ranch owner still has control over his enclosed herd.

CVC
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High Fence Hunting Varies

cscott711 wrote:

I didn't say anything negative about non-native species.  However I would say that if the island were substantially smaller than the typical home range of that species, then I wouldn't be proud of that accomplishment.  What enjoyment is there when the animal has no where to go and if you keep after him long enough, you'll get him?  I like not knowing if I'll ever see my quarry again.  It adds to the excitement and overall hunting experience.  

You're right, to each their own.  Whatever makes them happy, but hunting an animal that has no where to go isn't for me and is killing, not hunting in its true sense.  

Perhaps, the only exception in my eye is if the high fence ranch encompasses thousands upon thousands of acres.  Well beyond the typical home range of most every species except migratory species.  Under that set of circumstances, I would believe it would be just about as close to free range hunting as you can get.  Except of course, that the ranch owner still has control over his enclosed herd.

The tahr in New Zealand can't escape because they are on an island and the island is smaller than their natural homeland's range so based on this you wouldn't be proud of taking one?

I can tell you from friends that hunted their and watching it on tv that it is not easy to get one.

My point is that you can't just lump all high fence hunting into the same category.  There are places in South Africa that are high fence but encompass 3 million acres.

Why worry about high fence hunting?  If you don't like it don't do it.

cscott711's picture
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Apparently, some people can't

Apparently, some people can't disagree about a subject without getting defensive.  I stated my pure and simple case for why I disagree with it.  As previously stated, it is my opinion.  I agree with you, to each their own and also pointed out in my last statement that with a very large territory I viewed things differently.  Therefore, that would be me not "lumping all high fencing hunting into the same category".  

I couldn't care less that we disagree although I appreciate your point of view on the subject.  POV's are all I was asking for.   Thumbs up

SoCoKHntr's picture
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My

personal opinion is no, for me it's not hunting. I read on here recently where someone felt real hurt and angered because others were of this opinion. I guess that's going to happen in life, you know people having different views and such. Oh well, such is life.

From what I've gathered on those high fence operations is the game is usually bred and raised in very much the same manner as cattle or other livestock and much like cattle let to freely roam within the boundaries of the high fence. For me, and I'm only speaking of my personal standards, this would not constitute the wild and unpredictable nature of hunting. I love hunting for the challenge and wildness of it and if the animal and or game was domesticated in any way minor to major it wouldn't hold true to this.

Again, my personal standards, as I don't care if anyone else loves to do it and or does it.

Oh, and I can already hear the responses now, "then why don't you hunt with a spear and in a loin cloth if you love it so wild?" Well, that argument doesn't hold water with me. I'll hunt with my rifle where the game is wild and can run into the next county or game management unit if so inclined.

Cheers

458express's picture
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And the area is how big?

How naive can one be free ranging hunting, "I'll hunt with my rifle where the game is wild and can run into the next county or game management unit if so inclined." How big an area can you hunt in, the biggest public hunting in Wisconsin is 6500 acres (2600 hectare) and the smallest 135 acres. The average high fenced area non domesticated, you are uninformed about that, game management area I hunt on is 5000 hectare you must think animals are stupid. Please come and walk that area after a Kudu, by day 3 you would wish you were hunting the 135 acres back home. If you want I can also guide you on a 49400 acre (20000 hectare) high fenced area. Dear Sir, you will again wish you opted for a 2000 acre area in your parts of the world. The farms that I am talking about is bushveld, the same size farms in the Kalahari can also be done on foot, has been done and can do again. The challange and wilderness of it - come on, on a 5000 acre piece of property. Now according to Boone & Crockett's fair chase statement "and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals" Putting up trail cams is not improper advantage, sitting in a blind (yes we do see how it is done in your part of world - both rifle and bow) on the game trails - not improper advantage. I am asking and If someone does it I will not think any less of them, that is what makes him/her happy just do not think because there is a high fence you will push this animal and shoot it against the fence. Maybe you were refering to high fenced area that is 1240 acres in size, yes that will take you maybe two days to find the animal, if you know what you are doing, perhaps get a 300 yard shot at it. I am talking about 30 - 50 yards on a 49000 acre property, that is hunting. I think that is bigger than some counties.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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I didn't feel there was the need......

458express wrote:

How naive can one be free ranging hunting, "I'll hunt with my rifle where the game is wild and can run into the next county or game management unit if so inclined." How big an area can you hunt in, the biggest public hunting in Wisconsin is 6500 acres (2600 hectare) and the smallest 135 acres. The average high fenced area non domesticated, you are uninformed about that, game management area I hunt on is 5000 hectare you must think animals are stupid. Please come and walk that area after a Kudu, by day 3 you would wish you were hunting the 135 acres back home. If you want I can also guide you on a 49400 acre (20000 hectare) high fenced area. Dear Sir, you will again wish you opted for a 2000 acre area in your parts of the world. The farms that I am talking about is bushveld, the same size farms in the Kalahari can also be done on foot, has been done and can do again. The challange and wilderness of it - come on, on a 5000 acre piece of property. Now according to Boone & Crockett's fair chase statement "and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals" Putting up trail cams is not improper advantage, sitting in a blind (yes we do see how it is done in your part of world - both rifle and bow) on the game trails - not improper advantage. I am asking and If someone does it I will not think any less of them, that is what makes him/her happy just do not think because there is a high fence you will push this animal and shoot it against the fence. Maybe you were refering to high fenced area that is 1240 acres in size, yes that will take you maybe two days to find the animal, if you know what you are doing, perhaps get a 300 yard shot at it. I am talking about 30 - 50 yards on a 49000 acre property, that is hunting. I think that is bigger than some counties.

But, maybe I should have clarified, I am referring to native species of game in the US such as deer and elk. Those of which are bred and raised by man and then hunted within the confines of a high fence from which they cannot escape. I know some of the outfits articifially inseminate the does and or cows in order to ensure the highest genetic potential for huge racks. Now how wild can an animal be if herded around and artifically bred like cattle?

To me that does not constitute hunting if one takes game from such an establishment. To me it would be tantamount to going to a ranch and paying the rancher to kill one of his bulls. And, I am not one who will relinquish my standards because some feel anything to do with a weapon and killing an animal is good for hunting. After all it is just my standard which I am sharing here. I'm sharing my opinion on a forum, however, I am not on a crusade to extinguish this practice from anyone who cares to engage in it.

Also, I am not taking about AFRICA, as I don't hunt in AFRICA, likely will never hunt in AFRICA, nor am I up on the in's and out's of high fence hunting in AFRICA.

Nor, am I talking about hunting exotic animals in America to be clear. My opinion again had only to do with the hunting of native species in the US in high fence outifits.

I hope this has made my OPINION on the matter clear.

Cheers

458express's picture
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Maybe I jumped the gun here..

Point taken and fully agree with you. Should make a plan to come and hunt Africa with me, South Africa, Namibia, Mozambique and Zimbabwe.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Hey

458express wrote:

Point taken and fully agree with you. Should make a plan to come and hunt Africa with me, South Africa, Namibia, Mozambique and Zimbabwe.

458, If I ever have the funds in this lifetime to do that I'll look you up. Thanks and good hunting to you!

SoCoKHntr's picture
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I also just read

The article on this site regarding high fence hunting which seemed to look favorably upon future possible privitization of hunting management instead of the states. I am wholly oppossed to this idea as I see the future down that road as hunting closed off to only those who can afford the highest bid. Unfortunately with high fence operations and wild but private ranches I fear hunting is already headed down that road. Maybe not in my time but for younger generations down the road they may not even know what public hunting land was and only if extremely wealthy be able to afford to hunt an operation but at least the bucks and bulls will have been genetically engineered to have the hugest racks so their 12,000 dollars will be well spent on a rack they can hang on the wall.

When you go to privitization the end goal will be profits only with no regard to the individual hunter just to the stockholders. Sad.

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