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CVC
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Do the recent changes in airlines and flying affect where you hunt?

The full body scanners are in the news these days, but the airlines have gotten more unfriendly after 9/11.  Have you changed where you hunt because of the changes in the airlines?

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You have to look at it this

You have to look at it this way.  If you need to fly to get to where you hunt then you are going to have to jump through their hoops to do it.  I have a freind that just got back from Alaska and he did the full body scan and just grined when they did it.  His biggest problem was that the baggage handlers tore a 2' hole into his hard sided gun case.  The only thing that was damaged was the case but he was pissed.

CVC
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We drove to Canada instead of

We drove to Canada instead of flying in part because of the hassle of flying these days and it was much cheaper.  Took two and half days, but it was worth it to avoid the airlines.  And this was before full body scanners.

 

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Will change the way I travel

It won't affect my hunting at all as I drive to all my hunting locations.  It will however change the way I travel within the US for pleasure.  I think I'll be traveling by roadway from now on when I can.  Since 9/11 the US government has been using fear the way advertising agencies use sex.  Fear has become the new sex and boy is it selling well.  I can't believe how much freedom Americans have been required to give up in the name of false security just within the last 9 years.  All the government has given us in return is a false sense of security.  How much more are we willing to put up with before we finally say enough is enough.  Now you have to watch as some flunky puts his hands up your wife or daughters skirt?? What next, my house will be open to unlawful search and unlawful ceasure without just cause???  All in the name of national security???  The terrorists have already won, we get killed and injured by their evil activities and then our own government turns around and take away our hard earned freedoms.  If some bully beat and injured your kid would you turn around and spank your kid for getting beat up??  It's the same thing.  We as a people need to take a stance against this stuff.  Enough is enough.

CVC
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ditto

ditto

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I am sorry, but I have to

I am sorry, but I have to laugh at this.  Seriously?  How many freedoms have you had to give up since 9/11?  Maybe not being able to bring a bigger bottle of shampoo on a plane?  Don't start quoting things about the Patriot act or invasion of privacy.  I want a serious answer as to what you have given up.  So we have to wait a little more in line at the airport.  Big deal, leave 15 minute early.  Flunkies feeling up your wife's skirt?  Please, I have seen them time and time again doing a standard pat down on everyone they encounter.  Is there some idiot out there that may try to cop a feel?  Sure, but there are those type of people out there all over.  In our schools, on our streets, etc. 

People are making a mountain out of a molehill.  We have not lost any "freedoms".  The only "freedoms" we have lost are on paper.  If you are not doing anything illegal, then you shouldn't worry about it.

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Why isn't the patriot act a

Why isn't the patriot act a serious answer?

Perhaps you're right about not losing freedoms, at least related to 9/11, but the security at the airports are a joke.  Profile people and profile them again and don't waste time doing a full body search on some little old lady in a wheel cha

Your last line about not doing any illegal so don't worry about it is hard to understand?  Do you mean, it is okay for the police to enter your home without a warrant because if you're not doing anything illegal you don't have to worry about them coming in?  Or maybe you mean something else.  I am all ears.

But we digress, my point wasn't about losing freedoms, but whether the hassle at the airport would make you choose destination to which you could drive to hunt instead of flying.  I know my wife and I prefer to drive these days.

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No, it's not okay if police

No, it's not okay if police were to do that, but show me where they are doing that now.  Show mne where you have had your 4th ammendment rights taken away.  As for the P.A. question, I hear people lamenting all the time that the Government can listen in on our conversations and such.  I say who cares.  And, again, show me anyone who has heard those strange clicks on the line when big brother is listening in. 

The fact is, if you are a law abiding, average every day citizen, with the exception of airport security, there is a 99.99999999999999999% chance that your life is the same today as it was before 9/11.  If it isn't, call me insensative, but I feel it is probably deserved by that person.

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patriot act

Ca_Vermonster wrote:

I am sorry, but I have to laugh at this.  Seriously?  How many freedoms have you had to give up since 9/11?  Maybe not being able to bring a bigger bottle of shampoo on a plane?  Don't start quoting things about the Patriot act or invasion of privacy.  I want a serious answer as to what you have given up.  So we have to wait a little more in line at the airport.  Big deal, leave 15 minute early.  Flunkies feeling up your wife's skirt?  Please, I have seen them time and time again doing a standard pat down on everyone they encounter.  Is there some idiot out there that may try to cop a feel?  Sure, but there are those type of people out there all over.  In our schools, on our streets, etc. 

People are making a mountain out of a molehill.  We have not lost any "freedoms".  The only "freedoms" we have lost are on paper.  If you are not doing anything illegal, then you shouldn't worry about it.

 

You can laugh all you want.  My question to you is how much more are you willing to put up with at an airport security checkpoint just to board a plane before you finally say enough??  I want a serious answer.  Ca_Vermonster aren't you in law enforcment?  I could be wrong, but I thought you had said you were a while back.  Not sure what more serious answer you want from me. As far as I'm concerned the Patriot Act says it all.  Ever read that thing in it's entirety?  If not I suggest you do.  You won't be more than a few pages into it before you're starting to worry.  Do you think it's okay for the US government to make you jump through unessesary hoops for nothing, for false security?  Well be my guest (actually be their guest).  I don't enjoy being their puppet.  Do you actually feel more secure or safe on an airplane today than you did pre-9/11?  I don't and I'm a pilot in the industry. 

Strange thing is that when freedoms are taken away systematically nobody actually sees it nor notices anything happening.  There were piles of ashes made up of 6 million human beings at the end of WWII in Europe who didn't see it either until it was too late, and their systematic removal of rights happened faster than what has happened here since 9/11.  Now I'm in no way saying that the US government has those type of plans for us, not at all.  I'm simply saying that much worse has happened to industrialized educated people, much faster, and they didn't see it until it was far too late.  Our own government has unjustly targeted and killed Americans before, as we watched on TV from the comfort of our own homes.  Their greatest weapon was defamation of those they were targeting, so the public accepets it was the government having just cause.  It's happened.  Ever study what Senator MacCarthy was doing to Americans in the late 1940's and through the 1950's?  Sure we still had freedoms then, but for certain lawful Americans their rights and many of those freedoms were violated daily.  It's only when lawful citizens finally stand up and say Uncle Sam, you've gone too far, do things stay within check.  We can do that or we can burry our heads in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.  Maybe it will go away.  But, maybe the government will use that momentum to enact more restrictions on our lives.  If we sit back and allow it, it can only get worse. 

Makes no difference to me if I'm not doing anything wrong or not.  I'm a lawful productive member of society.  But that doesn't mean I'm comfortable with the government using the patriot act simply to monitor my bank accounts, monitor my email, tap my phone, or search my home, all without a judge issuing warrant.  That does not mean that I should allow some TSA flunky to search my genitals, or my kids privates.  Old ladys in wheel chairs don't blow up planes, christian children do not blow up planes, etc.  TSA needs to be more efficient in it's job. 

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Because they have to be

Because they have to be politically correct I have not been patted down in the last eight times I've flown.  But, as I previously posted, i have seen them take an old woman out of her wheel chair, bring in a walker so she could stand against it and do a full body search on her.  What a waste of resources. 

Government, by its nature, is a beast that craves more power, more control and more authority.  We, the people, must be the tamer that keeps the beast in check. And, this is the tough part, we must stand up and speak out against injustice even when we will be scorned for it.

I know the courts have upheld the searches by the TSA, but i don't like them.  We need airport security, but it has to be effective and reasonable.

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here's my point

CVC wrote:

Because they have to be politically correct I have not been patted down in the last eight times I've flown.  But, as I previously posted, i have seen them take an old woman out of her wheel chair, bring in a walker so she could stand against it and do a full body search on her.  What a waste of resources. 

Government, by its nature, is a beast that craves more power, more control and more authority.  We, the people, must be the tamer that keeps the beast in check. And, this is the tough part, we must stand up and speak out against injustice even when we will be scorned for it.

I know the courts have upheld the searches by the TSA, but i don't like them.  We need airport security, but it has to be effective and reasonable.

 

Unfortanetly there are those who will laugh and scoff at you for taking a stand, but they sure enjoy their freedom after others have taken that stand to keep the government in check. 

Here's my point.  I'll use the 2nd Amendment as a perfect example, but there are many other issues that can be applied as well and suffer the same fate.  I'll use the 2nd because I think most here understand it and appreciate it.

The 2nd Amendment is a Constitutional Right.  The key phrase in that Amendment is "shall not be infringed"  It is a right that we have enjoyed since this country was founded.  Unfortunately it has been under increasing attack starting in the old west at the end of the 19th century in small western towns where people were often required to surrender their firearm upon entering some towns.  In the last 30 years it has been steadily under attack from anti-gun politicians and citizens alike.  Imagine if organizations like the NRA hadn't already existed for a centruy.  Imagine if few people exercised their right to keep and bare arms or few cared.  Imagine if no one cared.  We surely would have the right to keep and bare armes infringed by now. I can promise that.  As it turns out there are many throughout our history until recently who value their right to bare arms as a way of life, as essential for safety and security, and recognise the threat that there are those who would like to take away that right.  Luckily we have and have had plenty of people that have stood up and said enough is enough.  And we are still in a battle for our gun rights from time to time.  But that right still exists in most states and we keep gaining ground every year.  This is a result of the average lawful citizen and the NRA standing up and saying enough is enough!! 

Occasionally we need to stand up and say that for many other reasons or the government will assume we don't care.  Sometimes you just need to say hey knock it off!!  Do nothing and we forefiet our freedom and rights.  Wait til it's too late and it's a battle trying to get back what we lost.  That goes for our entire way of life.  We need to take a stand instead of burrying our heads in the sand and pretending that nothing is happening.  That goes for everything we chearish.  Just something to think about. 

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