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bitmasher's picture
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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

I was ok with the FLDS raid as long as their was strong evidence that women were being forced to marry (whether as minors or otherwise) without their consent. However it seems this state investigation is going to far.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/21/polygamist.retreat.ap/index.html?ire...

Quote:
When the DNA sampling is completed, state officials will begin to relocate some of the 416 children staying at the coliseum and will separate the children younger than 4 years from adult mothers.

How in the hell is seperating toddlers from their mom's supposed to be helping the victims? Forcing these kids (especially those that aren't even old enough to understand what is going on) to undergo testing and sequestering them away from their parents is completely thuggish. What evidence is there that any of them have been abused?

Furthermore this entire raid seems to have been predicated on a phony tip:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/18/polygamy.fri/index.html?iref=newssearch

CVC
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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

Two questions - why in the world would a man want more than one wife? and why is polygamy illegal?

Granted, one wife is all I can handle, but why is it illegal to have more than one spouse?

Some of the allegations against the FLDS go beyond polygamy and child abuse is wrong, but in a society that demands diversity, demands gay marriage, why are we targeting people who voluntarily marry more than one spouse?

Interesting that this comes on the heels of the 15th aniversary of the anihilation of the Branch Davidians.

expatriate's picture
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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

Funny how all this was predicated on a "tip" from a young girl who claimed to be abused, and yet they've yet to identify her.

I personally don't see how DNA testing on 416 kids is related to the allegation of underage girls being married. Sounds like a fishing expedition to me, and one that fosters the kind of anti-government distrust that fueled the Branch Davidians.

I guess I don't get it. If a guy has affairs outside his marriage, society's OK with that, although they may think he's a jerk. If his wife approves of him fooling around with others, it's an "open marriage." Again, not illegal. But if the guy commits to the outside relationships and claims to have "married" them in a ceremony the state doesn't recognize and they don't expect state recognition, he's a felon? Sounds like hypocrisy for today's society to condemn polygamy. Underage marriage is a different issue.

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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

just another state agency run amok Evil!

i agree with the above posts. if you are a ghetto gangbanger fathering multiple children on multiple girls, even as young as thirteen or fourteen, then the state wants to get them all on welfare, too help the children. sure, they say they are going after these fathers to contribute to child support, but how often does that happen. now put these same people into polygamy, and now the state is all hot to take all the kids away and break up a more functioning family, which is far less likely to produce more gangbangers, crime, and welfare users. i think someone is just deeply offended by polygamy in the cps office, and does not recognize the hypocrisy showing in this whole case. when was the last raid on a public housing project that took all the children away?

beware the slippery slope here. who will be next? the home schoolers, the fundamentist christians, the.....? how better to justify their existence and continued funding than finding more victims to rescue and put into the loving care of foster homes and "the system". Brick Wall,) after all, it is for the kids!!!

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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

I can go along with the raid, if (its a big if) there was forced marriage or marriage of minors.

However its seems the parents and kids are being convicted without trial and their kids being put in foster care immediately. Sentence delivered before due process.

I ran across this site (on CNN) that was put up by FLDS...

http://www.captivefldschildren.com/

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/22/polygamy.testing/index.html?iref=new...

expatriate's picture
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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

The comment about homeschoolers isn't far off base. They're already after them in California, and the push is on to go after parents homeschooling without credentials.

You can get away with a lot if you say it's "for the children." The more home schooling catches on, the more the NEA will go after it with their usual condescension: you don't want AMATEURS teaching children, do you? For the good of the children -- we need to make sure these people are qualified to teach.

I also remember reading awhile back where the government was shutting down a Saudi school in the US because they demanded to be sure there was nothing offensive or hateful in the textbooks.

The precedents are already being set on the fringes, as the attacks on the Bill of Rights grow. We'll allow freedom of speech and press, so long as it's not "hate" speech. We'll allow freedom of religion, so long as it doesn't preach intolerance. We'll allow freedom of assembly, so long as you don't associate with the wrong people.We'll allow the right to keep and bear arms, so long as they're for a sporting purpose and "common sense" regulations are in place.

And who defines "hate" speech, "intolerance", wrongful association, and "common sense?" The state.

We're so busy creating knee-jerk laws in reaction to sensational media stories that we're not watching the precedents we set. If we don't watch it, the chains we chafe under tomorrow will be the ones we create today.

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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

I agree with every post here regarding this topic. It appears that most of us have the same view of the situation. As long as there weren't forced marriages or marriages of minors, who were they hurting? No one.

In that case, it's a huge waste of resources. If that is the way they choose to live their lives, it isn't anyone's business. If they weren't "legally" married to more than one wife, how can they prosecute them?......besides with some ridiculous trumped up charges?

I've been married more than once and have 3 children with my ex-wife and one child with my current wife. Will it become a crime for a man to have children with more than 1 woman? What will be next?

I brought this topic up during lunch today with my co-workers. We all ended up angry, but we all agreed with the BGH group......some of my favorite people by the way.

expatriate's picture
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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

By the way, there's a story running on the news that says the tip in this case may have been falsified by a woman in Colorado Springs that has done this type of thing before.

Imagine if that pans out -- 416 children forcibly taken from their mothers, DNA sampled against their will, and hundreds of families ripped apart over a falsified tip. That would make Mike Nifong look like a saint. By the time the civil suit is over, the FLDS population will own the state of Texas.

The more I think about the case, the madder I get -- I don' t see how they can have legal probable cause to take this kind of action. Even if the alleged tip provided probable cause, the crime alleged was that a 16 year old girl was married illegally and abused. I don't see how that justifies sorting out anyone but teenage girls around 16. Where is the probable cause justifying DNA sampling of hundreds of people to go on a fishing trip to study family trees?

Even if you study the DNA and determine that a 35 year old man and a 17 year old girl were the parents of a child, how can you take it to court when your evidence was obtained via a search that went way beyond the bounds of probable cause? When all is said and done, somebody in the Texas judicial system is going to fry.

Funny how the ACLU and everyone else isn't saying anything. People are screaming about the Patriot Act and wiretaps on suspected terrorists, and yet they're silent on this.

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DNA tests begin in polygamy case

expatriate wrote in part
" Even if the alleged tip provided probable cause,"
If I am correct the "tip" only initiated an investigation, which took quite some time, and as a result of that investigation, the authorities had then enough to secure search warrants. I would suspect that the "informations for search warrant" would contain hundreds, maybe thousands of facts,affidavits, etc. They would not all have to pass the "lie "test in court, just enough to support that a crime MAY have been committed. Remember we are talking here of PROBABLE cause, not GUILT beyond reasonable doubt.
I'm basing my thoughts on Canadian laws/courts ,etc. I know that USA/ and especially Texas have entire different opinions. Never thought I would say it but "God Bless Texas"

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Court: Texas had no right to take children

"The existence of the FLDS belief system as described by the department's witnesses, by itself, does not put children of FLDS parents in physical danger," the judges said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.ruling/index.html

Nice to see some clear thinking coming from the appeals court panel.