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CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Destructive Posting

Reading some posts and some pm's made me think about differing point of views. When does a differing point of view go beyond being constructive and just becomes destructive. And, when the posts serve no purpose other than to harass, insult and stir the pot for their own pleasure, do you allow it to continue or should the site ban the poster?

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Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
Destructive Posting

I hate to ban anyone. That is not in keeping with any forum function, in my opinion.
However I do agree that there has to be a line drawn when a poster is constantly and consistently displaying troll like behavior, violating Forum Rules and generally not behaving in an appropriately civilized manner.

I think that the offending poster should be warned and have their undesirable behavior specifically pointed out to them and then heavily edit their posts to remove all such undesirable behavior.
A preponderance of negative PM's from members complaining of the offending behavior and stating that the forum has become less enjoyable and even sometimes hostile toward common folks who come to this site to just participate in discussions that are important to them, should also carry much weight in deciding to ban a poster.
I have received a half dozen or so such PMs regarding a specific member over the past few months.
If that does not get them on the correct path then I feel there is no other alternative other than to ban them from the site.

CVC
CVC's picture
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Destructive Posting

I too have received pm's regarding a poster that has a history of posting in a negative manner. And, like you, I am not a big fan of banning someone, but the pm's and posts I read, got me thinking about the value of it and when it should be applied. Hence, I decided to poll other members to get their views on this rather unpleasant subject.

To me, it is similar to being open to a vigorous discourse, but not when I'm in a movie theater and some bozo keeps shouting and yelling at the screen. STFU or get out.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1787
Destructive Posting

Wow, CVC, do what you must, but I can't believe you'd look yourself in the mirror after this little gem. It's either me or Pango as were the only two who have a differing political viewpoint round here. And, if two people speaking their minds isn't representative of what Freedom and America stand for well go on ahead and do your ban. But, I am compelled to say it's the phoniest, weakest, and shamefullest, thing I've ever seen. That two people threaten you to that level speaks volumes of your character in terms of intolerance, narrow mindedness, myopic and dogmatic thinking. It's clear a real political forum offering differing views isn't wanted here. Rather a circle jerk where members can reaffirm viewpoints whether right or wrong with no interest or confidence in challenging ones and others viewpoints. I sincerly hope as you are a smart guy that one day you find the confidence to realize it's not about stiffling out those you disagree with and creating an echo chamber where you perenially told your s#$t smells like roses. But, if that's where you feel 'safe' that's where you'll stay.

CVC
CVC's picture
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Destructive Posting

Laugh come on, don't get your panties in such a bunch.

No one has complained to me about you nor have I ever complained about you. If fact, besides disagreeing with your point of view on some issues, I've been rather complimentary towards you as a person.

Even this post of yours doesn't bother me even though you bring it down to a personal level.

And, there are ways to stifle differing points of view than just banning a poster or censorship.

Constant personal attacks, lies, ridiculous accusations, etc. also serve to stifle different points of views.

Additionally, if you took the time to read the post, you'd see that I asked the question about when posts cross the line from being different points of view to just being intentionally nasty and destructive. No one said anything about banning people who disagree with you or me.

I can't believe you support harassment and insulting posts or do you?

Just remember not get your panties in a bunch over this poll.

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Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
Destructive Posting

SoCoKHntr's response is exactly the kind of crud I hear about that gets people offended.
He has taken offense and jumped to conclusions and immediately attacked CVC on a personal level.

He used derogatory language, IE: "Rather a circle jerk", " your s#$t smells like roses" etc, to try and be inflammatory rather than to just address his point of view and express his disagreement with CVC and his view point.

I ask SoCo why was that necessary?

Anyone who arrives in the political forums and reads just a couple of topics will immediately know who is doing the offensive posting and it USUALLY aint SoCo.

cowgal's picture
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Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Destructive Posting

First and foremost, BGH is a hunting web site, its not a political discussion site. Politics and some of the non-hunting topics are here for HUNTERS' entertainment, not trolls who do not hunt and simply wish to disrupt the forum.

Hunters are predominantly conservative, so their views will reflect that, including political views. No one likes to be incessantly hammered at, called names and told they're liars if they do not agree with the liberal agenda.

So back to the question here, should disruptive posters be allowed to remain on this forum? The moderators know each other's opinion on this subject, but we also need to hear from the general forum members.

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Destructive Posting

SoCo, this isn't an issue anyone takes lightly. I've been a regular on this forum for almost 7 years and have seen views expressed from across the political spectrum. I can't recall a single person that has been banned during that time -- because people found ways to express themselves in a rational manner. I've also been generally opposed to banning people -- not only because I enjoy varied discussion, but also because I think that usually the best way to expose someone's ignorance is to let him speak.

There's a big difference between political discussion and trolling. Discussion involves the exchange of viewpoints and debate on issues. Trolling's sole purpose is to irritate, inflame, and enrage. There's a big difference between good-natured teasing and mouthing off to a guy for the sole purpose of getting him to take a swing at you.

This isn't about opinion or limiting the expression of those opinions. If you aren't able to put together a coherent position without rabid ranting and insulting, that's your problem -- it shouldn't be ours.

Ever been in a bar? Ever seen a bouncer? Do your rights to free speech and association give you the right to be an out of control loudmouth, abuse and insult the other patrons, pick fights, make everyone in the bar miserable, and chase off customers? Or does the bar have the right to have the bouncer throw your butt out on the street if you refuse to behave?

If you go to a restaurant that requires you to wear a collared shirt, do you get up on your soapbox and scream about how your rights are being violated?

IMO BGH has been far more tolerant of this kind of thing than any other forum I've seen. Rather than asking it to lower it's standards, how about raising yours? Like me, you're a guest here.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1787
Destructive Posting
cowgal wrote:
First and foremost, BGH is a hunting web site, its not a political discussion site. Politics and some of the non-hunting topics are here for HUNTERS' entertainment, not trolls who do not hunt and simply wish to disrupt the forum.

Hunters are predominantly conservative, so their views will reflect that, including political views. No one likes to be incessantly hammered at, called names and told they're liars if they do not agree with the liberal agenda.

So back to the question here, should disruptive posters be allowed to remain on this forum? The moderators know each other's opinion on this subject, but we also need to hear from the general forum members.

If one were to go by your posts alone they'd be inclined to think it was more a political forum then a hunting one. Ninety percent of your posts are in the politics forum or the joke forum making fun of those dreaded evil 'libs'.

Incessently hammered??? One person good ol pango who in my view has provided solid arguments and info to back his views causes you that much grief? He's been the target of everything you're crying about and he aint crying. What is it like ten to one against him and you can't handle it.

In the end it ain't no big s#$%%^ing deal just awes me grown up people are that sensitive and well, weak. It's really akin to schoolyard bully tactics and crying to the teacher when you don't get your way. But, you are right it's your site and you can do what you please.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1787
Destructive Posting
expatriate wrote:
SoCo, this isn't an issue anyone takes lightly. I've been a regular on this forum for almost 7 years and have seen views expressed from across the political spectrum. I can't recall a single person that has been banned during that time -- because people found ways to express themselves in a rational manner. I've also been generally opposed to banning people -- not only because I enjoy varied discussion, but also because I think that usually the best way to expose someone's ignorance is to let him speak.

There's a big difference between political discussion and trolling. Discussion involves the exchange of viewpoints and debate on issues. Trolling's sole purpose is to irritate, inflame, and enrage. There's a big difference between good-natured teasing and mouthing off to a guy for the sole purpose of getting him to take a swing at you.

This isn't about opinion or limiting the expression of those opinions. If you aren't able to put together a coherent position without rabid ranting and insulting, that's your problem -- it shouldn't be ours.

Ever been in a bar? Ever seen a bouncer? Do your rights to free speech and association give you the right to be an out of control loudmouth, abuse and insult the other patrons, pick fights, make everyone in the bar miserable, and chase off customers? Or does the bar have the right to have the bouncer throw your butt out on the street if you refuse to behave?

If you go to a restaurant that requires you to wear a collared shirt, do you get up on your soapbox and scream about how your rights are being violated?

IMO BGH has been far more tolerant of this kind of thing than any other forum I've seen. Rather than asking it to lower it's standards, how about raising yours? Like me, you're a guest here.

Thing is I've not seen him do that. He's just providing the flip side of the coin to what your beliefs are. He's done nothing more then I've seen every one of you do providing, expressing, or defending, your viewpoints. You've gotten nasty with him and at times he's gotten a little smart assed with you, but again nothing out of line or what's not been thrown his way by many.

And, there are more Democrat hunters then you think, most are probaby a lot smarter then me in regard to keeping the their mouths shut as to not alienate themselves. Me I've never felt the need to do that what you see is what you get no pretentious need to fit in with the herd for the sake of it.

If I thought you were playing honorably expat I'd be inclined to agree with much of what you say. Unfortunately I see a lot of hypocrissy in regard to what you say now and what you've said leading up to this point.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1787
Destructive Posting
JTapia wrote:
SoCoKHntr's response is exactly the kind of crud I hear about that gets people offended.
He has taken offense and jumped to conclusions and immediately attacked CVC on a personal level.

He used derogatory language, IE: "Rather a circle jerk", " your s#$t smells like roses" etc, to try and be inflammatory rather than to just address his point of view and express his disagreement with CVC and his view point.

I ask SoCo why was that necessary?

Anyone who arrives in the political forums and reads just a couple of topics will immediately know who is doing the offensive posting and it USUALLY aint SoCo.

Oh, c'mon Mr. politically correct you're just as much a hot head as I am, and I'm sure your real verbage when talking about the 'left' is with language that would make the devil blush. You're trying to hold those you disagree with to a different standard in order to silence them. I know a man who hunts pigs in the Florida swamplands is a little tougher then one who get their feelings hurt over 'circle jerk' or one guy who provides a different viewpoint. Show me a link where pango said something that crosses the line into trolling cuz I sure as hell aint seen it.

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