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demonizing varmints and preditors

I love to hunt and I don't have any problem blasting criters as long as I do it in a way that is respectful to my prey. When I say respectful I mean a clean kill and not out of hate and with every attempt to harvest/utilize the animal meat or fur. That said; I see plenty of people who demonize Preditors and Varmints.

I Understand that animals must also be controled and hunters are perfect for population control because we are basically preditors ouselves as long as we are using legal methods.

My question is why do people demonise Wolves and Coyotes and devalue other animals namely varmints.

The Native americans called the Coyote brother because they saw it as a felow preditor with great skill and worthy of respect.

I've never even been to the west so I guess ranchers hate pararie dogs but why do people hate crows? The crow is another animal that Native Americans repected.

I have seen some great ethical arguments on this site concerning the ethics of long range hunting and I just wanted to see what everyone thought about this.

Thanks

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I don't think I've seen

I don't think I've seen anyone on BGH demonize varmints or predators. I'm going to assume you don't live out west, so probably don't know about the damage that prairie dogs, coyotes and wolves are capable of. Once you've seen it, you may think differently of these cute, cuddly critters. Trust me it's not so cute! 

Have you ever seen the damage prairie dogs do to a field? Plus they carry plague and diseases I would not want my dogs or livestock to be around. 

Coyotes are most likely one of the most adaptable and shrewd animals on our planet. No matter how much they are hunted, they seem to continually increase in numbers. Nothing seems to phase them. I'm afraid the wolves are the same. And by the way, the wolves that were introduced are NOT the native wolves. The gray wolf is much larger and more aggressive, and much more destructive to livestock and wildlife. It's a cruel brutal animal, that doesn't just kill the weak and sick! 

Now about crows. Have you ever been around them? I don't hate them, but I don't care for them either. They're not a pleasant bird to have around. 

I personally will not shoot an animal or bird if it's not for food or threatening something I value. 

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Cowgal, I generally don't

Cowgal, I generally don't think animals can be cruel. It seams that they can, but arent they just surviving they way they always have? Are'nt they hunters just like ourselves? I dont fault them for being what they are. I said I agreed with controls but I would never want to iradicate them.

As for Crows, I have been around them and I like them and would not shoot one for fun, but thats just my opinion.

I can see you have respect for life just as all good hunters do. Anything less would make us the demons.

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out west

If you ever become a property owner or rancher out here in the western US, your question will quickly be answered for you.  I also exterminate bugs in my house without utilizing them afterwards. I agree that al least the pelt of a coyote should be kept and used if you are going to kill the coyote.  For prarie dogs, there is typically not much left of them after you plink them.

Ask a farmer in the deep south why they hate razorbacks?  We can kill coyotes and prarie dogs all day long and not likely endanger the species of becoming extinct.  Just like feral hogs and wild boars, the only thing that will wipe them out is a species specific pandemic, and I don't think that would leave much of a dent either.  Those critters are survivors and pretty whitty, they'll survive and have because they are such.

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The reason I asked the

The reason I asked the question on this site is because I've already seen that the people here are fair and humane. So I wanted to get a feel for what you all thought. Thanks.

No I'm from the East but I really want to move West to get a chance to hunt some of the excelent game you have there.

Like you, I don't kill animals for the joy of killing; hunting and shooting is soo much more than that. I've known some people and seen some DVDs that reduced hunting to just killing and that is a shame, and it gives the wrong impression to non hunters.

Anyway thanks for your input:thumbsup1:.

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hunting

I agree....the hunt is so much more than just the kill. At least the razorback and boar hunters have pretty good table fare after they kill their vermin.  I don't consider killing pararie dogs to be hunting, it's simply just extermination and vermin control while sharpening ones shooting stills.

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Yea, I live in virginia and

Yea, I live in virginia and have resently singed up for a quota hun for ferrell hogs on back bay wildlife refuge. It's a raffle to hunt and if i'm lucky I'll get a chance to shoot one deer and as many hogs as I want to kill. I looked on line and the big males taste like crap but the little ones taste great:D.

Staying on topic I recently got a great varmint rifle (hense my moral inquire). I would love to hunt Coyote but it would be a great P dog rig. Its a Rem 700 VSSFP in 220 swift with Harris bipod, Leupold 3x9x50 VXII, sling, and 40 rounds of ammo all for $600.00. It was from a guy at work who I trust and he takes care of his stuff. Said only 200 rounds thru it (ill try to upload pic).

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Rem 700, 1.JPG
Rem 700, 1.JPG2.5 MB
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Rem 700, 2.JPG2.57 MB
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My View

marksman wrote:

I love to hunt and I don't have any problem blasting criters as long as I do it in a way that is respectful to my prey. When I say respectful I mean a clean kill and not out of hate and with every attempt to harvest/utilize the animal meat or fur. That said; I see plenty of people who demonize Preditors and Varmints.

I Understand that animals must also be controled and hunters are perfect for population control because we are basically preditors ouselves as long as we are using legal methods.

My question is why do people demonise Wolves and Coyotes and devalue other animals namely varmints.

The Native americans called the Coyote brother because they saw it as a felow preditor with great skill and worthy of respect.

I've never even been to the west so I guess ranchers hate pararie dogs but why do people hate crows? The crow is another animal that Native Americans repected.

I have seen some great ethical arguments on this site concerning the ethics of long range hunting and I just wanted to see what everyone thought about this.

Thanks

 

Fair enough question.

I'll give you my take on it if you can bear with me. I am guilty of demonizing certain animals. I am primarily a meat hunter and have been around or involved with livestock off and on throughout my life. I kill for meat or preservation of self and people near and dear to me. Cows are a cash crop to me. If you hurt the calf crop you hurt those near and dear to me. Elk and deer are a food source. If you hurt the elk and deer you hurt my ability to feed those near and dear to me.

That's the short version. For me humane is a word best left for philosophical discussions done by other people. While it is true that their needs to be a balance between man and the animals I find some to be more worthy of consideration than others. People say that there were wolves years ago and the animal kingdom survived. While that is true it is mostly because there were a lot less people and much less encroachment by man on the wild places.

In today's world I see no place for the wolf in the lower forty-eight. When wolves were released in Yellowstone the elk herd went from approximately 19,000 to just over 3,000 today. That tells me there is an inbalance that we created by introducing wolves to the area. We exterminate certain humans that have proven to be of no benefit that commit heinous acts. Why shouldn't the wolf be viewed in the same light? Our ancestors spent a lot of time and lead in getting rid of the problem only to have us re-create it by re-introducing them again.

I'm not saying that everything our ancestors did, in regards to animal populations, was good or right but I do think people need to stop looking at this from the Disney perspective and view it from the real world. Deer, elk, and bison all serve a purpose, besides being tasty. What purpose do wolves serve?

 

Biker

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wolves

While I agree for the most part I do believe that there was a place for the wolf as far as ecosystem balance goes.  I agree that in todays world they really would cause more damage than good.  As far as the elk population in Yellowstone goes I think those numbers may need a more complete explanation.  Has it been proven that the wolves actually killed all those 19,000 elk in 3,000 days?  Could it be that the wolves drove a certain amount of those 19,000 elk off the park property, scattering the herds?  Any threat around and elk will move.

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I don't demonize or hate

I don't demonize or hate anything that I kill but there is a diference in how you look at them. Although it has been many years I have shot a bunch of prarie dogs and had a great time doing it. They are a problem and it beats poison or some of the burning methods that have been used on them. Coyotes I have killed a few but have only had one hide tanned. I have no problem for killing them for what they are. The only requirement is to kill anything you hunt as quickly and humanely as possible. All animals deserve that respect.

Btw I would put the scope from that .220 on the 22-250 you were talking about in the other thread and use it as a calling and walk around rifle. You will need something stronger for the .220 if you plan to be shooting prarie dogs at 500 yards someday. If you don't reload that .220 will cost a lot to feed, I have a 700 classic but it doesn't get shot a whole lot.

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Hey that advice about the

Hey that advice about the scope is exactly what I was thinking! It's a great scope but doesn't do the 220 justice but would be perfiect on the 22-250. That 220 is kind of heavy but the 22-250 is quick to point.

I'm thinking about the Burris Fulfield II in 4-14 X 50 or the Nikon Monark in similar power. What do you think? I could go for more power, say 6-24.

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