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expatriate's picture
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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Will this controversy ever end? Everyone knows it's a real potato, so all of those so-called "potato scientists" bought and paid for by the Manx potato people need to just shut up. The world has voted, and most people accept the Lebanese potato as genuine -- so there's no reason for botanists to examine it to determine if it's actually a sweet potato.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=worlds-biggest-potato#c...

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
pangolin wrote:
it's not just you, it's your party.

Well if it is my party then I can say and think whatever I want now can't I?
And I want Potato chips and some french onion dip, and for some odd reason I have developed a yearning for some sweet potato pie.
Discussion declared over. We win. Global warming doesn't affect Potatoes so therefor it is unimportant.
it's my party and thats what I say and so that makes it final.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Good grief Expatriate, do not ever link to a publication as respected and eminent as Scientific American when arguing your pro pollution stance. There's a danger Cowgal or others who really do think the whole warming thing a hoax will go there. I know you yourself don't really beleive half of what you say, you just spout it off as part of your extreme stance, oops, don't say stance. But seeing as you did, I will too.

"So-called “global warming skeptics” are indeed getting more vocal than ever, and banding together to show their solidarity against the scientific consensus that has concluded that global warming is caused by emissions from human activities."

"Upwards of 800 skeptics (most of whom are not scientists) took part in the second annual International Conference on Climate Change—sponsored by the Heartland Institute, a conservative think tank—in March 2009"

"a raft of recent peer reviewed studies—many which take advantage of new satellite data—back up the claim that it is emissions from tailpipes, smokestacks (and now factory farmed food animals, which release methane) that are causing potentially irreparable damage to the environment"

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-global-warming-a-myth

http://www.scientificamerican.com/search/index.cfm?q=global+warming&subm...

Scientific American has I don't know how many articles on Global Warming, 80? 100? I'm beginning to think you went there while looking for something to quote, got discouraged after doing a little reading, and switched to potatoes, your default position when confronted with a reality you can't accept.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Nobody is saying that anything is a hoax, only that Al Gore is not the Definitive Final Authority on Global anything.
We, or at least I, are just wanting to have ALL Data and information made available to members of Congress who will be deciding on increased tax dollars and penalties based on the outcome of the inquiry. That is just good , sound Scientific Method....hearing all the Data and Information.
Why is it that you and your kind are so afraid of hearing data and information that contradicts what you are trying to ram down the American public's throats?
Is getting things right a problem for you? If all your links show irrefutable data then why not entertain the rest of us by exposing the fallacy of the "others" data and information.
You and your kind seem to forget that even though you guys won that doesn't mean that we ceased to be American citizens and that your people still must represent us also. Or do you believe that is not the case?

expatriate's picture
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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Potatoes actually do better as the climate warms -- it's STORING them that requires coolness.

You still haven't answered the question, Pogo -- if it's all bunk, why are people afraid to debate the scientific evidence? Why must they always resort to ad-hominem attacks and denial of debate?

It's kind of like conservatism. If conservative thought is dead and destroying the Republican party, then why are liberals putting so much energy into killing it? Why is it they are focusing so hard on ad-hominem attacks against those who articulately relate conservative values? If moving to the center would make the Republican party a more potent force, then why are the Democrats arguing in favor of it?

Why do liberals come unhinged and bring out the fangs over something they claim is no threat at all? In terms of global warming, it's because they're becoming increasingly desperate to keep the hoax going in the face of growing evidence that it's not true. At first they could argue science -- but as the science is falling apart they're responding more and more by attacking sources of conflicting information in order to justify ignoring it.

For example, here's an article from National Geographic. In the face of admitted evidence of decreased solar activity linked to previous periods of cooling, the article spends a lot of its energy trying to explain the evidence away as irrelevant. After all, we can't let facts get in the way of opinion.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090504-sun-global-coolin...

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

I quickly read the National Geo article.

It exemplifies the problems I have with anti science people. It says that the affects of global warming will have a much larger affect on increases in temps than any cooling due to sun spots.

Yet Expatriate links it as if it proves his point. Instead it refutes it. He probably read the headline only.

I frankly have very little time for these kinds of foolishness.

J Tapia if you really have an interest I'd urge you to read the first link to Scientific American. If not that's ok.

To your larger point about representation. Yes you are still represented, but unscientific arguements are no longer accepted. The scientific method doesn't say that just because I beleive electricity is magic my views have as much credence as the bulk of scientific study pointing to electrons and electomagnetism. Our representatives are trying to fix things, we're sick of field mice and trains to Vegas, lies no longer cut it. We need all the help we can get, especially alternative views, but not unhelpfull obstruction.

We're not scared of any data or research, but we have no time for 9/11 conspiricy theorists or tin foil hatters. If deniers wish to make their point do so in the scientific journals, but they can't, so they don't.

Take a look at Scientific American, it does an excellent job of disputing all the deniers claims much better than I might be able to. I doubt there is much you don't understand, it's well written, mainstream, and scientific.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
Quote:
Good grief Expatriate, do not ever link to a publication as respected and eminent as Scientific American when arguing your pro pollution stance. There's a danger Cowgal or others who really do think the whole warming thing a hoax will go there.

Pogo, you're slipping into your condescending mode. I think quite well for myself and am not as easily influenced as you have been.

quote from National Geo link:
"In general, recent research has been building a case that the sun has a slightly bigger influence on Earth's climate than most theories have predicted. "

Sure they threw in the current global warming theories, but as time goes by and the sun remains in this lull (and we're all freezing!) Gore is going to be proven a nutjob - and you too.

Tell you what - since you're so certain that global warming is caused by CO2 from fossil fuels, I suggest you and everyone else that buys into this, should immediately cease using all oil products and electricity. If you're not willing to do your part to save the planet, then don't preach to us who don't buy into your global warming baloney. You want to pay more via cap & trade, I say go for it, but leave mine alone. Cap & trade is simply a scheme to raise more money for Obama's spending spree. You really think paying more will help stop global warming?

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Cowgal wrote,

Quote:
You really think paying more will help stop global warming?

Of coarse, just a few more carbon credits to Uncle Al's bank account and the planet will miraculously survive!! How naive can you be?

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Buying carbon credits is eerily similar to buying indulgences from the church in Martin Luther's time. What a scam -- give me your money and I'll absolve you of your guilt.

Let me put this in perspective -- at least from a thermodynamic standpoint.

Our planet is a rock roughly 8,000 miles in diameter with a mass of around 5.9742X10^24 kilograms, surrounded by the frigid vacuum of space. Do you have any idea how much energy would be required to increase or decrease its temperature by even a fraction of a degree?

What we're talking about here is the temperature of the atmosphere -- which by comparison is only 20-30 miles thick (except for extremely thin things like the ionosphere). We're not even talking about frosting on a cake here -- we're talking about a layer of wax on a bowling ball. Any changes in the temperature of the atmosphere will be temporary before the mass of the planet and energy output of the sun restore the balance.

Our planet has two sources of energy -- residual heat from its creation 4.6 billion years ago, heat from radioactive decay, and the sun -- a thermonuclear reaction just under 865,000 miles in diameter 91-93 million miles away. Those energy sources are continually replenishing the heat we constantly radiate into space.

The sun has fluctuated its output over its entire history of several billion years. Those fluctuations are well documented in a fossil record that shows enormous fluctuations in temperature -- and variances in CO2 levels as well. It's been doing this for millenia with zero input from humanity. In recent history, the "Little Ice Age" was a period of cooling with low points around 1650, 1770, and 1850. And you know what? It warmed up each time without human influence.

And that's nothing. During the Pleistocene, temperatures cooled down to the point that glacial ice extended as far south as the Ohio River. Obviously it warmed up considerably after that, leading to the ice's retreat and mass extinctions -- and it did so without human influence. No doubt Pleistocene Al Gorthag and the Pango tribe blamed it all on cookfires and predicted the demise of humanity if mammoths became extinct.

And now here we are, and even National Geographic is pointing out that the sun's lack of activity is producing a drop in temperatures. And yet despite that correlation, the global warmers doggedly stick to their dogma and desperately try to come up with a reason why that doesn't matter -- sort of like arguing that global warming causes glaciers to both retreat AND advance.

Once again, Pogo, you're not answering the question: why is the global warming crowd afraid to debate the matter? And as usual, the more we keep asking you that question, the more you suddenly "don't have time for such foolishness."

Funny how many times that has happened on this forum -- you suddenly lose interest and disappear when things get tough for you.

Why are global warmers afraid to debate, if they think their opposition is out to lunch? Answer THAT, Pogo -- but I suspect you'll either come up with yet another reason why you don't have to, or you'll suddenly abandon the thread.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Expat wrote,

Quote:
Buying carbon credits is eerily similar to buying indulgences from the church in Martin Luther's time. What a scam -- give me your money and I'll absolve you of your guilt.

This is an excellent analogy of exactly what's going on. Why couldn't I get in on some of this cash? O.K, here's the deal. As you all know Potatos are soon to be in scarce supply. You all out there are Potato hogs. Eating french fries baked potatos and such at an alarming rate. You should be ashamed of yourselves! Because of you millions of bunnies will have no potatos and starve. I, however can assist you with your crushing burden of guilt. Thanks to your selfishness millions of little bunnies (such as myself) are going without so you can indulge. WON"T YOU PLEASE HELP! You can help support needy Bunnies by sending your tax deductible (not really) donations to me. Bunnyhelper. That's right, even a small donation such as three or four thousand dollars will help feed herds and herds of bunnies (and buy one bunny a much needed Escalade). Please be generous. They need your love and support. Send your check immediately to
P.O. box 1234
Watership Down,
Carrolville USA

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