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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
pangolin wrote:
J tapia I'm very familiar with scientific theory, many theories are so established without yet being fact that they are accepted, electricity is a great example. Ever seen an electron?

Because I call it magic when the lights come on doesn't make it so, it doesn't even mean we shoud give my theory of magic as much credence as those who believe in electricity. So it goes with continental drift and global warming.

In talking about global warming, amongst other subjects, I often feel as if I'm arguing against believers in magic.

I never said that you were unfamiliar with Scientific theory, it is Scientific method that I think that you are lacking knowledge in..
I am an Electrician and I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and yes I have seen an electron. I see them every time I turn on the Light switch.
What I have not seen is a nitrogen atom or an oxygen atom but I am told that they are all around me and that I breathe them. Magic? Theory? Doesn't matter to me as long as I don't suddenly start to suffocate.
Any self respecting scientist, which Al Gore is not, will always refer to it as Electrical Theory when speaking on electricity.

I would very much like to see this undisputed data that says Fact: Global warming is mankind caused. Would also be curious as to how that fact was proven.
As ex alluded to earlier, remove man from the equation and you would still have global warming along with global cooling. That is verifiable fact. How then can it be proven that mankind is causing global warming now?

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

One key distinction needs to be made here. I don't dispute that temperatures have gone up and down.

What I dispute is the idea that human activity is responsible. If I flush the toilet just before the city loses power, does that mean I did it?

Temperatures recently have been dipping -- coinciding nicely with a reduction in solar activity. But no one wants to say that, because doing so in this political environment is akin to drawing a cartoon of Mohammed. You're branded an infidel and lose your funding.

By the way, here's your new talking points, Civet. Looks like it's time to stop using the term "global warming." I particularly like the admission about using advertising techniques to manipulate public opinion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/02/us/politics/02enviro.html?_r=1

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

J Tapia said with a few words changed,

I would very much like to see this undisputed data that says Fact: Electrical theory is caused by electrons. Would also be curious as to how that fact was proven.

Take a photo of those electrons you see every day JTapia and make history. I still say it's magic, lots of other examples of magic.

"Magic? Theory? Doesn't matter to me as long as I don't stop shooting elk because treeline moved upwards two thousand feet.

why do we keep hearing about dissenters with PhDs? Exon Mobil who funds most of them. Remember up thread to cowgals web link? oops who stands to lose from a reduction of CO2? Big coal too.

I don't see why you guys keep propping up Al Gore as your straw man? Have I mentioned him? He's a politician that has been interested in Global Warming for a long time, and won a Nobel for his efforts to make people aware of it. The big problem with warming is that once you understand and accept that it's a real thing, then you have a moral obligation to slow and alleviate it. Many don't want to accept that jump. It's like accepting the idea that the US goverment has tortured and murdered in your name.

Much easier to stick ones head in the sand.

Two countries you won't hear much from...Canada and Russia.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

The topic of this thread is about Gore being allowed to testify before congress, however no scientists with differing theories were allowed. So yea... Al Gore is tied directly to the global warming scam.

Pogo are you aware that over half of this country's electricity is produced by coal fired power plants? So what do you think is going to happen to your electric bill if cap & trade is passed? Its not going to go up just a little, it will skyrocket. And who's going to be hurt the most? Middle to low income folks who can afford it the least. The technology exists to remove all CO2, however its a huge cost, and that cost will be passed on to the consumer. So while our government is forcing our country to clean up the coal fired power plants, China is bringing a new one online at the rate of one per week. Mind you, they're not even using our old technology in these plants, they're the dirty nasty totally unfiltered types of plants, the kind our country doesn't even allow.

I've stated many times that we need to be good stewards of our earth, so cleaning up the power plants is a good goal. All power plants must already meet EPA emission standards and are equipped with scrubbers. Power plants that are in close proximity to wilderness areas (like up here in northwest Colorado) must meet even more stringent emission standards. So how do we get China and other developing countries on board? Big problem.

Historically times of global warming have been good for people worldwide. We were in a slight warming trend, but it has now reversed (unfortunately!) and the cooling trend in the years to come will be much more detrimental. Its been documented that solar activity (sunspot activity) is very closely linked to the earth's temperature over thousands of years. Many scientists favor this theory over Gore's. Right now solar activity is very low to non-existent. Check this site out for info http://www.spaceweather.com/, this page explains the sunspot activity http://www.spaceweather.com/glossary/spotlessdays.htm?PHPSESSID=u61tivp2.... 2009 is showing even less sunspot activity than 2008, we're headed for a cooldown.

So before we allow our politicians to go crazy with all these expensive new laws, we need to make sure there is even a problem that needs to be fixed. And I for one do not trust politicians to tell me what the problems are. I'll put my money on scientists I trust.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Pogo, the electricity comparison is downright stupid and desperate. You know it is, so quit wasting our time.

And once again you're discounting the messagers because you're afraid to discuss the message. How easy it is to say these people are funded by Exxon so you don' thave to consider the science that's presented!

You don't think there's money driving pro-warming research? So if an energy company funds research, the research is biased and can't even be looked at. But if a group of environmentalists invested in global warming fund it, it's not?

Science is science, and the laws of nature have no respect for funding streams or politics. It makes no difference whether it's oil money that discovers the sky is blue, or if it's environmentalists. Leftists like you are always coming up with reasons to avoid information, because it's SO much easier than analyzing it.

And you still haven't answered the question: if the skeptics are out to lunch, why are you afraid to debate them?

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
pangolin wrote:
Take a photo of those electrons you see every day JTapia and make history. I still say it's magic, lots of other examples of magic..

You are kidding me, right?
Google or wiki "Particle Accelerator" Hundreds of photos of electrons.
What is it that makes the fluorescent light glow? Google that also.
To find out what an Electron is goggle "Atom", or wiki that also.
Quantum Mechanics is what is keeping Electricity just a theory.

pangolin wrote:
"Magic? Theory? Doesn't matter to me as long as I don't stop shooting elk because treeline moved upwards two thousand feet.

My thoughts exactly. However, where has that happened at?

pangolin wrote:
why do we keep hearing about dissenters with PhDs? Exon Mobil who funds most of them. Remember up thread to cowgals web link? oops who stands to lose from a reduction of CO2? Big coal too

expatriate and cowgal have both covered this and I agree with both of them. No need for me to debate those two.

pangolin wrote:
I don't see why you guys keep propping up Al Gore as your straw man? Have I mentioned him? He's a politician that has been interested in Global Warming for a long time, and won a Nobel for his efforts to make people aware of it.

Al Gore was mentioned by Name in the article that Cowgal linked to in the opening thread.
Al Gore and his family grew Tobacco. They are partly responsible for the deaths and serious health problems of millions through-out the world.
His own sister died from Lung Cancer.

pangolin wrote:
It's like accepting the idea that the US goverment has tortured and murdered in your name.

Oh really. Who has done that?
Who was tortured? Who said they were?
Who was murdered in my name? Who murdered them?
What does that have to do with global warming and the refusal to allow dissenting views to testify before congress?

pangolin wrote:
Much easier to stick ones head in the sand.

You are the expert on that, not us.

pangolin wrote:
Two countries you won't hear much from...Canada and Russia.

I hear from Canada quite regularly. Russia, not so much.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
Quote:
Google or wiki "Particle Accelerator" Hundreds of photos of electrons

Now just hang on there a second lil fella, why don't you just Wiki global warming and be done with all this mess. You see that's exactly what I was getting at. We all know that Electricity is just a theory, there is as yet no proof but it is silly to try to poke holes in electricity as it has been looked into from such a wide segment of the scientific community. So it goes with global warming, except that two of the three largest US companies have a vested interest in denying it's existance.

Scientists don't debate in the sense most of you are thinking of, the Sean Hannity shouting match variety. Scientists publish. They publish not only what they are thinking but how they got there so that contemporaries can repeat the tests they did to arrive at their ideas. Peer review.

While you are looking at the wiki for global warming also take a look at The Enlightenment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
Because that's the basic problem we are having here, it's not just you, it's your party.

When I go back to the original link of cowgal's I hear some one complaining because they couldn't take part in a Sean Hannity type yelling match with Al Gore. Big deal. I believe testimony in front of subcommittees is by invite, why didn't the Repubs invite the guy to testify by himself?

Besides the wakiness of some denier I'm amazed that all of you think global warming is just some sort of made up thing of the Dems plus 100 some odd other countries. It's like 9/11 conspiracy theorists, tinfoil hat stuff.

I'll tell you a secret that only the rest of the 3 billion people know, temps are going up and it's irreversible. They were going up slowly until the 1950s then they picked up, in the 1970s things started really heating up. I feel like I'm typing to my mad aunt from the attic who thinks that goblins have inhabited the house next door.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Pogo you can stop with your baloney right now. Just because you and Gore claim the discussions are over, doesn't mean people with rational functioning brains think that way. Gore uses that statement over & over, "the debate is over" there is nothing more to discuss. I say baloney!

We were not heating up in the 1970's, in fact quite the contrary. All through the 60's and early 70's the media hysteria was over the impending ice age. Yes ice age! I was in grade school in the 60's and I remember the teachers doing the very same thing they're doing right now with global warming, scaring the crap out of the kids. It did not start reversing (warming again) until the mid 70's/early 80's. In fact a post WWII cooldown happened during the post war economic boom with lots of CO2 produced during that timeframe. During that industrial timeframe (1940 through 1975), the temps were dropping.

The dems don't want debate before congress because Gore cannot prove his theories. Any scientist can poke holes in his baloney.

I suggest you watch the "Global Warming Swindle" video. Its a bit dry, filmed in the UK and includes many scientists from around the world. It will make you question everything you think you know about global warming. And no it was not funded by oil or coal.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLC_enUS3...
The first video at the top of this link is the full length, about 75 minutes. Other videos are broken into 10 minute increments.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore
pangolin wrote:
Scientists don't debate in the sense most of you are thinking of, the Sean Hannity shouting match variety. Scientists publish. They publish not only what they are thinking but how they got there so that contemporaries can repeat the tests they did to arrive at their ideas.

You poor, misguided little man. Real scientists are interested in discovery, not just getting others to rubber stamp their views. I've already discussed this concept ad nauseum, so I don't think it'll turn on any light bulbs to give more examples. Suffice it to say that your concept of "science" would've left us stuck in the stone age sitting around patting each other on the back, confirming over and over that there will never be any weapon more effective than a Clovis point.

And I ask again -- if temperatures are going up over and over again and it's irreversible, why have they been going down recently? And how do you explain millions of years of fossil data that show far bigger swings long before human beings started industrializing in the past 200 years?

And if all of this is bunk, why won't you debate evidence vs evidence? What are you afraid of?

Oh, yeah...and if it's irreversible, then why are all the global warming zealots saying we can change it? Do you even know what "irreversible" means?

Go ahead -- keep posting. Everything you post exposes more flaws in your position.

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Democrats Refuse to Allow Monckton to Testify With Gore

Civet wrote,

Quote:
I'll tell you a secret that only the rest of the 3 billion people know, temps are going up and it's irreversible. They were going up slowly until the 1950s then they picked up, in the 1970s things started really heating up. I feel like I'm typing to my mad aunt from the attic who thinks that goblins have inhabited the house next door.

It's no secret at all. We're perfectly aware the planet changes temperatures every so often. So what? This is one of the milder changes compared to most. What we're saying is no one has come remotely close to proving it is man made. Worse, Al Gore has used this opportunity to bilk money from every guilty idiot with an SUV. Believing that global warming is somehow man made takes a leap of blind faith that would make Mother Teresa blush with envy. The fact that you buy in to this (probably literally) so completely doesn't surprise me in the least nor does it surprise me you had an aunt who was nuts. She proably went crackers trying to educate her ignorant nephew. They say it runs in the family you know.

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