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CVC
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....and I do know you will Big smile

But isn't this the reason we have the mess we do? The government is pressuring a financial institution to provide funds to a plant that has shut down. What chance does the financial institution have of recovering its loan - None. So, the government is forcing the financial instittuion to make a bad investment.

Am I missing something?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081210/ts_nm/us_usa_economy_factory

CHICAGO (Reuters) – JPMorgan Chase & Co offered $400,000 on Wednesday to help pay severance to laid-off workers occupying a Chicago factory, whose protest symbolizes resentment over the federal bailout of big banks while workers suffer.

JPMorgan Chase's offer, announced by Rep. Luis Gutierrez, who has been mediating the dispute, follows on Bank of America Corp's pledge to make an unspecified, limited loan to Republic Windows & Doors on behalf of the 250 workers.

Both banks are creditors of Republic, a family-owned window and door manufacturer that fell victim to the housing downturn and shut down on Friday.

The workers, who were given three days' notice of the closure, have occupied the shuttered plant since then, demanding a legally mandated 60 days' pay for severance, and accrued vacation pay

CVC
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Guess I am right

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I don't see where the bailout is going to improve anything -- especially in the automotive industry. The UAW is throwing a fit because it wants the bailout to preserve their status quo -- and why should we give billions of dollars to people who have clearly demonstrated their ability to mismanage and LOSE billions of dollars? I've got family members that I love dearly, but I know better than to loan them money.

I personally don't see where the new administration will improve things. I recently held my nose and read an article by Michael Moore on the matter to get a gauge on how the left feels on the matter. He thinks the unions should've been backed, and if the government wants to put conditions on the bailout, it could be things like requiring that they only build high economy hybrid cars, etc.

In other words, government should mandate what product they make. The Soviets already tried that. The left doesn't seem to understand that the reason there are so many SUVs on the road isn't because Detroit built them; it's because people wanted them. If the government tells Detroit what to build, the situation will get worse because Toyota and Honda will be listening to the consumer.

CVC
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The auto bailout is like giving a transfusion to someone who still is bleeding from an open wound. It is only going to keep them alive for a little longer and then they are going to die.

Saw an interesting tidbit. GM and Toyota sold the same amount of cars last year, but GM lost about 37 billion and Toyota made about 17 billion.

Until GM can sell cars for a profit, not bailout is going to help.

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The rub on the window company was that the bank that forced the company to close down was one that we had just bailed out for multiple billions, so the bankers got the tax money of the guys getting laid off, so they took over the building.

Same attitude towards car companies, everyone wants some of that money from heaven, bankers got tons with no oversight, car companies want small amount.

I'd say give it to them. Not in hopes that they turn things around, but so we can keep a manufacturing base. Might come a time we need to make things. Cheaper than unemployment, welfare, etc for now, and it might slow the downward spiral. Many car companies are eating it now, Swedish, Japanese, Korean, you name it.

If I buy a car company or a bank I want to tell them what to do, right? Hate sending money to Saudi, Iraq, Iran, UAW, Mexico, Venezula, Canada, anywhere, even at $1.60 per gallon.

Just finished my time at one of the worlds great hospitals, many burkas, guy who went under anesthetic before me had one of those checkered red scarves like Yasar Arafat. Why do we need to send those guys to great hospitals, why not our folks.

Back on topic. Just read weekly unemp numbers, rolling averages down down down, where does it end, a millon jobs a month? Sporadic internet now. Afraid wold might end one of these days and I won't know.

Michael Moore is for entertainment only. Ecenomicaly the left is Krugman but he hasn't been blogging much, over there gettin his Nobel.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

CVC
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Civetcat wrote:

Quote:
I'd say give it to them. Not in hopes that they turn things around, but so we can keep a manufacturing base.

But if they don't turn things around and become profitable then how are we keeping our manufacturing base?

The financial bailout was to help financial institutions continue to function and to provide credit so other businesses could function. How does forcing a bank to "loan" money to a business that is out of business so they can pass it on to their employees benefit all taxpayers?

It doesn't - it is just taking my tax dollars and redistributing them to someone else. It is taking my tax dollars and flushing them down the toilet.

Those dollars could have gone to help a viable business stay viable.

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I'm all for keeping our manufacturing base. From what I can see, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai are building plants in the US and hiring American labor. The Big 3 are closing plants and laying them off. Rather than throw money at bad management, we should let Darwin work and drive the companies to fix their problems.

You don't reform a gambling addict by covering his debts and giving him a briefcase full of cash -- you cut him off and put him in rehab.

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Expatriate wrote,

Quote:
You don't reform a gambling addict by covering his debts and giving him a briefcase full of cash -- you cut him off and put him in rehab.

Wanna bet....?
Just kidding. Your are correct in your analogy. We cannot simply throw money at the problem and expect it to go away. Personally I think we need first to break the UAW of it's stranglehold on the auto industry and we cannot do that until the big American three hit bottom. Until we do we are simply susidizing a corrupt and greedy union leadership.

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None of the Bail-Out money should have been give out.
That money is Tax money taken from you and I or from the people we work for.
That money was taken out of circulation in an already weak economy and then a good chunk taken out for Government "overhead" and now they want to inject it back into the economy by giving it to people that have already proved failures in their effectivness in managing their Corporations?

Just think what the economy would be like if that money was left in the hands of the people who earned it and for them to spend it as they wanted to.

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My fear is they are not going to avoid going bankrupt, and take tax dollars with them.

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Exactly so. Let them hit bottom and break the union. Then maybe we can build them back up.

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