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Conversation with a D about Obama
civetcat wrote:

Jtapia I don't understand the pride in ignorance but whatever makes you happy guy, got any kids?

whether I have kids or not is none of your concern.
Why do you ask, you some kind of pervert?

I typed the exact same thing that I have seen from you except I substituted NY times for Fox. If you don't like it then quit typing it.
Your condescending attitude does you no good and now, add to that, your unexpected perversion for kids and I am at a loss.

What does any of this have to do with having a conversation with a D?

CVC
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Conversation with a D about Obama
SoCoKHntr wrote:
CVC wrote:
Quote:
But, your guys were the ones willing to wiretap us American citizens and throw away habeas corpus. Seems your team is the one willing to throw away personal freedoms and spy on us, US citizens, much like Stalin did to his people.

SoCo - help me out. I opposed this when Bush did, but I haven't seen where Obama has put a stop to it.

Did I miss him stopping it?

I'll look into it, but keep in mind it's been a......................... Month! It's a little harding then just saying stop. Also, it still applies to the gist of the last couple of posts no?

True its been a month, but it is pretty simple to stop it. But I'll concede he has other issues that he may have to deal with. However, will you feel the same toward him as you did Bush if he doesn't stop it?

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Conversation with a D about Obama

CVC wrote,

Quote:
True its been a month, but it is pretty simple to stop it. But I'll concede he has other issues that he may have to deal with. However, will you feel the same toward him as you did Bush if he doesn't stop it?

He has been busy releasing terrorists and closing Gitmo. You can see who's freedom is his priority. You can bet he'll keep the electronic listening gear. As to your last sentence CVC I'll but you a drink if you can get a straight answer to that one.

CVC
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If it were civetcat then I would know the answer to it. With SoCo, he might answer it directly. Most likely he just won't respond to it.

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Conversation with a D about Obama
CVC wrote:
SoCoKHntr wrote:
CVC wrote:
Quote:
But, your guys were the ones willing to wiretap us American citizens and throw away habeas corpus. Seems your team is the one willing to throw away personal freedoms and spy on us, US citizens, much like Stalin did to his people.

SoCo - help me out. I opposed this when Bush did, but I haven't seen where Obama has put a stop to it.

Did I miss him stopping it?

I'll look into it, but keep in mind it's been a......................... Month! It's a little harding then just saying stop. Also, it still applies to the gist of the last couple of posts no?

True its been a month, but it is pretty simple to stop it. But I'll concede he has other issues that he may have to deal with. However, will you feel the same toward him as you did Bush if he doesn't stop it?

CVC, I'm disappointed you thought I'd avoid giving you an answer. I've read up on the issue you are attempting to box me in on and after review I'll say this. It looks like in certain cases where bush's admin brought legal action using information obtained through warrant-less wiretapping some critiques from the left, but mainly critiques from the right are throwing fits stomping up and down asking for a full disclosure of any and all info acquired through this action. Those on the left in my view are stimulated by their morally opposed stance on what is in their view 'illegal eaves dropping' on US citizens and others. Those on the right who seem to be screaming the loudest are motivated and fueled by a desire to say 'look, look, I told you so, he promised change and there's no change, nanny, nanny, nanny," Those in this camp, of which I believe you and most others here are look for a channel to attack at every opportunity.

If Obama did release all of this information immediately your camp would deride him hysterically for 'helping the terrorists' if he doesn't release it as he hasn't you have the 'he promised change and isn't delivering' talking point to cry ad infinitum about. Which one month into his administration make it all the more ridiculous. With you guys he's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position at all times.

Unlike you I will give a reasonable amount of time to see the course of action Obama will take and refrain from hysterics right out of the gate. If he continues with the bush and cheney policy of eavesdropping on Americans it will distress me. You hardcore ideology guys are only looking to obstruct and blame. Same old song and dance which worked in the nineties culminating in bush's eight year reign, but your guys hosed it up so bad it's going to be a long long time until you guys regain any power if you continue to use those tactics.

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JTapia wrote:
civetcat wrote:

Jtapia I don't understand the pride in ignorance but whatever makes you happy guy, got any kids?

whether I have kids or not is none of your concern.
Why do you ask, you some kind of pervert?

I typed the exact same thing that I have seen from you except I substituted NY times for Fox. If you don't like it then quit typing it.
Your condescending attitude does you no good and now, add to that, your unexpected perversion for kids and I am at a loss.

What does any of this have to do with having a conversation with a D?

Calling someone a pervert and in the same breath complaining about one being condescending! You attempt to debate but always quickly fall back to complaining about the meanies on the other side while throwing out hostile barbs.

CVC
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Conversation with a D about Obama
SoCoKHntr wrote:
CVC wrote:
SoCoKHntr wrote:
CVC wrote:
Quote:
But, your guys were the ones willing to wiretap us American citizens and throw away habeas corpus. Seems your team is the one willing to throw away personal freedoms and spy on us, US citizens, much like Stalin did to his people.

SoCo - help me out. I opposed this when Bush did, but I haven't seen where Obama has put a stop to it.

Did I miss him stopping it?

I'll look into it, but keep in mind it's been a......................... Month! It's a little harding then just saying stop. Also, it still applies to the gist of the last couple of posts no?

True its been a month, but it is pretty simple to stop it. But I'll concede he has other issues that he may have to deal with. However, will you feel the same toward him as you did Bush if he doesn't stop it?

CVC, I'm disappointed you thought I'd avoid giving you an answer. I've read up on the issue you are attempting to box me in on and after review I'll say this. It looks like in certain cases where bush's admin brought legal action using information obtained through warrant-less wiretapping some critiques from the left, but mainly critiques from the right are throwing fits stomping up and down asking for a full disclosure of any and all info acquired through this action. Those on the left in my view are stimulated by their morally opposed stance on what is in their view 'illegal eaves dropping' on US citizens and others. Those on the right who seem to be screaming the loudest are motivated and fueled by a desire to say 'look, look, I told you so, he promised change and there's no change, nanny, nanny, nanny," Those in this camp, of which I believe you and most others here are look for a channel to attack at every opportunity.

If Obama did release all of this information immediately your camp would deride him hysterically for 'helping the terrorists' if he doesn't release it as he hasn't you have the 'he promised change and isn't delivering' talking point to cry ad infinitum about. Which one month into his administration make it all the more ridiculous. With you guys he's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position at all times.

Unlike you I will give a reasonable amount of time to see the course of action Obama will take and refrain from hysterics right out of the gate. If he continues with the bush and cheney policy of eavesdropping on Americans it will distress me. You hardcore ideology guys are only looking to obstruct and blame. Same old song and dance which worked in the nineties culminating in bush's eight year reign, but your guys hosed it up so bad it's going to be a long long time until you guys regain any power if you continue to use those tactics.

Sheesh....all that for just this one simple answer:

Quote:
If he continues with the bush and cheney policy of eavesdropping on Americans it will distress me.

As I have before, I don't believe in giving up our freedoms for "security." Doesn't matter if it is Bush or if it's Obama. It is wrong no matter who is president.

I am not trying to box you in per se. Yes, it is true that answering will box you in, but that is a consequence of your black and white stance towards Bush and his policies and because of your support of Obama.

Yes, if you oppose something that Bush did, unless you want to appear hypocritical you need to oppose it if Obama does it.

My views are consistent regardless of the president - they are personal views based on liberty and the Constitution, not party affliation.

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CVC wrote:

Sheesh....all that for just this one simple answer:

Quote:
If he continues with the bush and cheney policy of eavesdropping on Americans it will distress me.

As I have before, I don't believe in giving up our freedoms for "security." Doesn't matter if it is Bush or if it's Obama. It is wrong no matter who is president.

I am not trying to box you in per se. Yes, it is true that answering will box you in, but that is a consequence of your black and white stance towards Bush and his policies and because of your support of Obama.

Yes, if you oppose something that Bush did, unless you want to appear hypocritical you need to oppose it if Obama does it.

My views are consistent regardless of the president - they are personal views based on liberty and the Constitution, not party affliation.

Well gee sorry there for giving you 'MY' answer Mr. keep it black and white. You say your views are consistent and I'll say fairly consistently biased to castigate dems and favor repubs in light of where we find ourselves after years of repub rule. If I thought you held bush and republican 'ideology' to the same fire you do Obama or the dems your statements would carry more weight in my view.

CVC
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SoCo - go back over all the posts and you'll be hard pressed to find one that is favorable of Bush.

I freely admit that I am biased against Democrats, but I believe I have good reason to be. There are many good Democrats that I have support. Nancy Boyda, our former congresswoman is one. But, the leadership and the general leftist views of the democrat party is what I take issue with.

They tout diversity, but are very exclusive.
They chastise industry for wasteful spending, flying corporate jets, but Pelosi takes 5 dems on a private jet to Italy at a cost of $200,000 just for the jet. The total cost are unknown at this time.

Obama has set himself up for criticism because he promised us the world to get elected. I expect him to keep his promises. Don't you?

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CVC wrote:
SoCo - go back over all the posts and you'll be hard pressed to find one that is favorable of Bush.

I freely admit that I am biased against Democrats, but I believe I have good reason to be. There are many good Democrats that I have support. Nancy Boyda, our former congresswoman is one. But, the leadership and the general leftist views of the democrat party is what I take issue with.

They tout diversity, but are very exclusive.
They chastise industry for wasteful spending, flying corporate jets, but Pelosi takes 5 dems on a private jet to Italy at a cost of $200,000 just for the jet. The total cost are unknown at this time.

Obama has set himself up for criticism because he promised us the world to get elected. I expect him to keep his promises. Don't you?

Well, yes, but we have to consider a few things. One, even though hardcore ideologically driven repubs have repeatedly overblown the 'he's the Messiah' and 'all the poor minorities believe he's going to give them money and homes while they sit on their ass eating bigmacs," I and other rationale moderates have never considered that to be anywhere near reality or anything he's promised.

Two, he made campaign promises about what his goals are and as we both know goals are something to work at and shoot for. I was never under the illusion he was a magician and would simply wave his wand Jan. 09 and everything he promised would instantly come true. He's still got people in his own party who will disagree in addition to the moderate and extreme obstructionist repubs.

Third, as I keep saying it's been a MONTH! You may be ready to call failure at this point and that's fine if it makes you feel good or like you've won something, but I'm not. I'd rather be a little more realistic in my anticipation of what positive changes he's promised to work to bring about.

Fourthly, all politicians right, left, and center, make promises during a campaign and then were lucky if they accomplish a quarter of what they said they'd do. As, I've said before, I believe in the decency and honesty of the man that he wants good things for all Americans and will work hard to try and accomplish a positive outcome for all of us.

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