33 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Well, people seem to get kind of emotional about this, and I certainly hope no one has taken any of my comments on a personal level. I am trying to look at this issue in an objective fashion. I think that some statements have been made that simply do not square with logic and what we know about these kinds of incidents. I have tried to point out these inconsistencies on both sides of the issue.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Maybe I'm missing something, but what I keep hearing is that there's a chance that a teacher could become a target. There's a chance a teacher could lose control of the gun. There's a chance that the teacher would miss the target.

Those same arguments could be used to justify disarming police officers.

On the other hand, there's a chance armed teachers would provide enough deterrence to keep shooters away from schools in the first place. There's a chance the teacher could succeed. That plants a seed of doubt.

Deterrence is achieved when a perp does the cost/benefit analysis and determines that the risk is unacceptable. That's far more effective than any reactive measure.

Lockdown plans are quite common in schools today. However, such plans are like watertight doors on a ship -- they accept the idea that lives will be lost but hope to limit the damage. Lockdowns don't do much between classes or before/after school when the halls are full, either.

I say arm the teachers. Give the bad guys something to think about, an maybe they'll at least take it somewhere else.

Yet after saying all that, I think the biggest way to solve this would be to get the media to stop sensationalizing school shootings. It just spawns copycats and feeds the idea that it's a sure-fire way to make the entire country pay attention to you. But I think the prospects for media restraint are even more far-fetched than armed teachers.

Offline
Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)
expatriate wrote:
Yet after saying all that, I think the biggest way to solve this would be to get the media to stop sensationalizing school shootings. It just spawns copycats and feeds the idea that it's a sure-fire way to make the entire country pay attention to you. But I think the prospects for media restraint are even more far-fetched than armed teachers.

This I agree with 100%!!! There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that a major part of the motivation for all of these shootings has been the certainty that the shooter would become famous. These psychopaths don't care if they have to die to be noticed, they just want to be noticed!

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3190
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Well here's another vote for that. Butthem they will scream freedom of the press. They live and die on the spactular events. Someone tell me the school shooting befor Columbine? Maybe just where it was?

Offline
Moderator
Joined: 12/03/2005
Posts: 1691
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Yes, if you want to go out in a blaze of glory a school setting is about as good as it gets
But the media just beat a story to death. Obviously a news event has to be covered but for example: The John Mark Karr(JonBenet Ramsey) case. Three or four days straight they showed the same footage, over and over and over every few minutes.

Just thought : Suicide by Teacher..That would make you famous, just make sure you leave a note indicating your intentions That would be good for an extra three or four days of constant coverage at the very least.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Don, there were five school shootings in 1998 alone before Columbine. A couple may jog your memory. One was the Jonesboro, AR case where the two kids pulled a fire alarm and then sat in the woods sniping kids as they came out of the building. Another was Kip Kinkel, who killed his folks and then went on a shooting rampage in the school cafeteria. Interestingly, Kinkel had been caught with a gun in school the day before and had been arrested and released.

The Jonesboro case occurred in March and got massive media attention. It was followed by one in April, two in May, and one in June. Then it was all quiet until Columbine in April '99. That was followed 8 days later by a shooting in Canada, and a month later by a shooting in Georgia. This seems pretty typical. When there's one shooting, there's more within days and over the next couple months. March '01 saw four occur in the same month. Where it gets interesting is to note that shootings at schools OVERSEAS fit right into the pattern -- there was generally an American school shooting within a month prior to a foreign school shooting. In many cases it was days prior.

No doubt about it, these things occur in waves. The overseas cases suggest that the copycat factor transcends the other "causes" generally coughed up by talking heads to explain school shootings. To see the pattern, check it out: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3190
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

I think I remember the Kip Kinkle one. Eugene, Ore wasn't it? I know there was one there. I don't recall the Jonesboro shooting. Maybe the press wasn't really up to snuff on that one.

Offline
Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

After the Columbine shooting, the only people it seems that were not held accountable were the shooters themselves. Everyone blamed the jocks and the more popular students, as well as various video games, for driving them to murder. The media and others keep saying how they selectively attacked those that had done them wrong, but the fact that they brought all these explosives proves that wrong.

The truth is they were used to doing whatever they wanted, unrestricted by their parents. They had a morbid infatuation with killing and violence.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

The reaction to Columbine was the typical liberal reaction from people who have no moral base and instead view such events in terms of how they can be manipulated to political advantage. So accountability is placed wherever it might serve an agenda.

This philosophy has been used to externalize accountability and exhonerate untold numbers people who have done bad things, from the Columbine shooters to Bill Clinton, Islamic terrorists, Gerry Studds, Barney Frank, Marion Berry, Ted Kennedy, Kim Jong-Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Yet external factors have been denounced with vigor in order to condemn Linda Tripp, Ken Starr, Mark Foley, soldiers in Iraq, Dick Cheney and George Bush.

Offline
Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
Concealed Carry in the Classroom (CCC?)

Maybe we should elect Rush Limbaugh for president. Of course he would be great, he's a conservative, so what's the problem if he snorts a little oxycodone every now and then? No, wait, let's just all take up arms and carry wherever we go, work, school, to the movies, out to dinner, under your pillow at night, and even in the shower. eye roll

I fail to see the intelligence of arming teachers, myself having experienced the school systems more recently than most of the people posting to this thread. Giving guns to teachers creates lots of new problems.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Gun Free Zonesbitmasher505/13/2007 23:05 pm
Concealed Carry Pistol ???buckykm1712/17/2013 08:24 am
Federal Concealed Carry hawkeye270209/24/2010 16:35 pm
Wyoming Governor Signs Concealed-Carry Bill Into Lawjaybe303/07/2011 15:17 pm
Concealed Carrybnow0707603/22/2006 07:15 am