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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

See, Don, that's the kind of outlaw attitude I have the biggest problem with. Believe me, I'm no fan of authority, but really, we can't have people going off half-cocked and killing animals willy nilly, which is what you are saying. Your not just saying that if a rancher sees a wolf attacking his/her livestock they will kill it(which is perfectly legit), but if a rancher SEES a wolf they will kill it. I don't care who you are or where you come from, the law is the law. If'n ya don't like it git it changed!

As for catching people, you're right for the most part. But believe you me, even in supposedly remote areas the wind has ears. And you may get away with it for awhile, but it will catch up yo you. My only hope(as I've said before) is that we can get the wolf delisted so that folks can LEGALLY protect what's theirs.

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Location: Antelope, Ore
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

There was nothing outlaw about what cowgal said so I assume you ment me. Your right, but thats the way it is. Just to help you understand, I live relatively colse to civilization. It's 35 mi to the grocery store. One ranch, the largest in the area has 30 mi of highway frontage, pushing 70,000 acres. A moderate ranch here runs about 12,000 acres. How do you stop it? Best, befor you go spreading these things around, have a control plan to protect these ranchers.
Go east of here and the ranches get not only big but remote. There won't be any problem for these guys that will denigh every thing.

So, without a plan to protect their intrest's, they will develope their own, it's called shoot and shut up. You might not like it and they won't admit it but that's the way it is. There's plenty of room for these wolves in Alaska, areas of Canada, indeed it even sounds like Minnesota. But there are those that would force their will on other's without reguard to the consequences, to man or the wolf! throwing the wolf into these areas sets it up for disaster. Come find the two loose protected ones in Oregon now, you won't. Maybe they just decided to go home, think so?

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 02/27/2003
Posts: 394
Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations
Don Fischer wrote:
So, without a plan to protect their intrest's...

And the Colorado Wolf Working Group is specifically working on a plan to protect the interests of EVERYONE involved! Why is that so hard to understand? Why is it that you think there are only two ways to approach this--kill all the wolves, or do nothing at all about them?

Compromise. That's what this nation was founded on. That's what the Working Group is trying to achieve. That's what, in the end, is going to bring about useful results.

Close your eyes if you want, but those of us who open ours and are willing to compromise are the ones who'll be scraping you up off the ground after the train smears you across the countryside.

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Location: Antelope, Ore
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

I had askedyou some questions about you and you haven't answered even one? If we know more about you it might make it easier to understand where your coming from. I have been telling you what will likely happen and you want to argue. What's the deal?

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Location: Colorado
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Posts: 394
Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

The questions you asked are irrelevant to this discussion. Answering such questions only opens the possibility for people to respond to who I am, instead of to what I've said. That's a game I won't play.

I've expressed my opinion. You've expressed yours. We'll see who's right sometime down the road. I'm just glad that the Colorado DOW put together the Wolf Working Group and is trying to do something proactive, rather than burying their heads in the sand and hoping that the wolf issue will just go away.

Now, you go ahead and have the last word. I don't see any point in belaboring issues that we've already gone over.

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Your absolutely right. Thank's for the answer and have a good day! Big smile

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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Colorado most likely could support a few packs. The SSS attitude will make an impact on the wolves that wander into parts of the state that ranching is still a dominating force (ala the NW CO).

I suspect introduced or migrating wolves would fair better in regions in and around RMNP and state and national forests in the central, southern, and eastern mountains.

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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

bitmaster, that is probally very true. They could probally survive in places like that in several states. But what will be the cost? Not only the introduction cost, that will likely come out of fish & Waste but how about human confrontation? Those meetings between lions and humans are not going that well since hunting them was disrupted.

I would agree that each state could support a pack or two that way but I think it is insane to introduce preditor's of that type. There's reason's they were wiped out. If two planted in Idaho can wander into Oregon as far as they did, what's to keep plant's in, say Crater Lake Park from wondering into Klamath Falls, Medford or Grants Pass? And you can't hunt the things so what maintain's their fear of human's? And if little Johnny get's ate by a wolf, who's responsible? I can tell you whos not, government that put them there! They are never responsible for anything. This noncense to me sounds like a plan to create more poaching and then more law enforcement to control it. In time the poachers will likely go away, the law enforcement never will even tho they are no longer needed.

I don't hear anybody wanting to bring back the great bears. How about we restock grizzlys in all their former range and protect them? How about more mountain lion's in all their former range, and protect them? Wolves are a bad idea and right or wrong, will be shot out as soon as there found in certain areas.

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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Don, there is no talk about re-introducing wolves in Colorado. This discussion is strictly about managing the ones that have wandered into the state. Not sure where they're wandering in from, but I'm sure its from one of the states that re-introduced the wolves. Last year we had one get smacked along I-70 by Idaho Springs. From the radio collar they were able to track it back to the wolves from Yellowstone.

I don't believe most ranchers abide by SSS. Most try to abide by the law, even if they're unhappy about it and don't like it. Like I mentioned a few posts ago, they have several ways of handling problem predators that are within the law.

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Don, I called truce on another thread, but I need to respond.

You're right that as of now we can't hunt them, but that will change soon. Especially since the "greens" are fighting an uphill battle saying that wolves still need to be protected. We, as a nation, are learning quickly that they don't need protection, they need management!

Grizzlies are protected in the lower 48, people are trying to re-introduce them, even in your beloved California! It's unfortunate that the cats are indirectly being protected by stopping hunting of them in so many states.

I really don't think you will see anymore re-introductions of wolves or mountain lions in the U.S. (Possible exception being wolves in the Northeast, and panthers in Florida) They will disperse just fine on their own if they are allowed to, as we have already seen.

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