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Location: Montana
Joined: 02/13/2005
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

as long as you are prepared to give up your right to hunt elk and deer its a great plan!just ask the people of south east Montana,this year they are reducing the number of elk tags for the migratory herds to 1/20 of what they have been for 50 years,why?Because the godamn wolves have reduced the number of calves in the herds to 3 calves per 100 cows and the herd numbers are dropping rapidly,what a great plan!in the areas where they have killed or run off all the game they eat our ranchers livestock and pets,what a great plan!Anyone who is a real hunter and knows nature knows that we have established good herds of game because we regulate thier numbers through established seasons and quotas,having packs of wolves hunting these game every day year round destroys what we have done,they wil take the hunter out of the system because they will have to save the game for the wolves,its already happening here in Montana,great idea!

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 02/27/2003
Posts: 394
Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations
NONYA wrote:
Anyone who is a real hunter...

So, anyone who disagrees with you can't be a "real" hunter. What a load of CRAP!!!

You want to have a discussion about this, fine, I'm ready. You want to spew a bunch of BS about who is a "real" hunter... I've got better things to do with my time than listen to that kind of foolishness.

I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but this is a forum for and about hunting. We are ALL hunters! We ALL care about our hunting opportunities. We ALL care about the game animals. To suggest that there cannot be any disagreement about issues like wolves amongst "real" hunters, that all "real" hunters think exactly like you do, is insulting. Unless you're TRYING to insult other hunters, you need to open your mind and realize that there is some legitimate disagreement about this.

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Kudos don,
I have been ripped and seen many others get ripped on this forum for not believing EXACTLY what someone else does. It is getting old.

I have never understood how anyone who Hunts or enjoys nature and the outdoors can ever have an objection to animals doing what animals do.
I guess some of us are Outdoorsmen who hunt and some are just Hunters who venture outdoors.

It seems that more and more folks are thinking that a huge rack or giant head are the trophy. I personally think that the hunt and the experience itself is the trophy so if the coyotes or gators (we dont have wolves here) eat the deer here that is fine by me as long as they dont start setting snares or leg-hold traps.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

As was stated, the wolf issue has been debated previously. If anyone is interested, there are several old threads. Just dig around in the forums.

My biggest concern is how the wolf (or any predator) reintroduction will be managed, and who/what will suffer from mistakes while they (the DOW, DNRs, etc.) figure it all out.

Predators & wolves in particular need a very large geographic range to roam. I agree that many areas with an overabundance of whitetail deer and elk could use some predator control. Then there are other species like the mule deer that are on the decline that could be hurt further by more predators. Right now we don't even know why the mule deer population is declining. Is it people? too many elk in the same habitat? what?

Would I enjoy seeing a wolf in the wild? Of course I would, but we need to be careful of what we wish for and where we introduce the wolves. I would like to believe that everything would just naturally fall into place and be in balance, but I don't think that's possible any longer. People have messed with nature too much over the years and wildlife has lost too much habitat. So I don't believe wolves can be re-introduced just anywhere, there needs to be a large amount of open land & plenty of food to support them.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind hearing from folks that have lived with wolves in their "back yard", I'm not talking about re-introduced wolves, but wolves that have naturally always been a part of their ecosystem, like in northern Minnesota and parts of Canada.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Oregon and Washington have also been slated for reintroduction. I believe I read that reintroduction has already begun in Oregon.
I believe that the wolf is necessary to maintain a balance in the eco system.
I don't believe it is our right as humans to deside what is necessary or not.
We are humans and humans typically have other agendas in our decisions.
With the reintroduction. Does this mean we are no longer at the top of the food chain? Can we again or for the first time learn to live as a part of the eco system or will we remain the control freaks of the universe?
I wasn't around when wolves roamed the forests and tundras or possibly, in the near future, our habitats. It could be a very inviting opportunity. Quite possibly we could learn a few thing from them. If the opportunity is taken.

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Location: St. Paul, MN
Joined: 02/07/2004
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations
Quote:
As a side note, I wouldn't mind hearing from folks that have lived with wolves in their "back yard", I'm not talking about re-introduced wolves, but wolves that have naturally always been a part of their ecosystem, like in northern Minnesota and parts of Canada.

I lived in Northern MN for 6 years and still hunt up there every year. It is just accepted that there is another predator competing for game when we venture into the woods. Actually, I never even think about it until I see a thread about re-introduction of the wolf to a western state. We don't have all the game you out west have but our deer hunting is still great, even with the wolf. Obviously I can't speak for every Minnesotan up north but IMO we have managed to live with wolves(They do have a rather large area to roam though).

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Location: Colorado
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations
cowgal wrote:
My biggest concern is how the wolf (or any predator) reintroduction will be managed...

I agree absolutely. You cannot just dump a bunch of wolves into any old habitat and hope that things will work out. That's why I am encouraged by the results of the particular working group discussed in the article that leads off this thread.

First, this group was organized pro-actively. There are no current plans to reintroduce wolves to Colorado, but the DOW is trying to prepare for the time when they arrive here--either naturally, or as a result of reintroductions. Second, this group specifically acknowledges that hunters and ranchers have legitimate concerns about wolves that need to be taken into consideration.

Nonetheless, this group also acknowledges that wolves are almost certainly, at some point, going to become a resident species in Colorado, and accepts that there are probably some positives to that as well.

This is the sort of balanced, reasonable, advance preparation that we need. The criticism of it has mostly come from those with a knee-jerk, we-don't-never-want-no-wolves type of attitude. That kind of attitude, frankly, is counter-productive. The "greens" will win every time against that sort of blind refusal to accept any existence of wolves anywhere, simply because the overwhelming majority of the public does not greatly sympathize with hunters and ranchers, and actually believes that wild species have a place in wild environments.

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Location: Colorado
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

Don, I do think the meetings the DOW has held around the state are a great start for open dialogue. However the DOW currently does not have any management authority over the wolves. They are still federally protected. That needs to change. Though Colorado has no plans on re-introducing wolves (currently) the wolves that migrate into the state are from introductions in other states. It clearly shows just how far wolves are capable of traveling.

The DOW reports only one wolf sighting statewide, I believe there are more, especially along the northern boundaries of the state. With re-introductions in more states, its inevitable that Colorado will see more wolves.

It will be interesting to see what type of impact the wolves will have on our ecosystem. It would be great if we could limit their range to areas like RMNP (Rocky Mtn National Park) for game management, but that's simply impossible. I bet the wolves we see in CO are some that were introduced in Yellowstone.

Thanks for your input MNHunter, I've heard similar from other Minnesotans, most don't give the wolf much thought. Its just part of their environment. So that area of the country must have a nice balance, which is good to hear. How about problems with wolves and livestock or pets? Here in CO we already have problems with bear, lion & coyote, so adding one more predator is a bit unnerving to the ranching community.

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Location: Colorado
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations
cowgal wrote:
However the DOW currently does not have any management authority over the wolves. They are still federally protected.

Well, that's a whole different problem. State wildlife departments should ALWAYS have some level of management authority over the species that exist within their states. And, in reality, this is not just a wildlife issue.

In a wide-ranging list of areas the federal government has usurped state authority in ways that the Constitution does not allow. The Tenth Amendment has become a hollow, meaningless collection of words. I keep praying that one of these days the Supreme Court will enact a ruling or two that gives meaning back to the Tenth Amendment, but I don't have much hope. And expecting Congress to do anything about it is much like expecting the fox to build a better fence around the hen-house!

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
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Colorado Wolf Working Group Recommendations

cowgal, I have lived in NE Minnesota for about 5 years now, and grew up east of the Twin Cities in rural Wisconsin. I have seen some "city folk" try to impose their ideas on the people in the north country and think that it will always be a problem. I agree with MN Hunter in that it is just accepted, for the most part, that there are wolves around- and quite a few at that!

There are issues with pets and livestock. Most people who live here keep a close eye on their pets and don't let them run wild, but they realize that if they lose control and their dog runs away, it might never come back. It's about learning to take precautions, and personal responsibility. We have gotten too used to having no fear/respect in the wild. Although in reality I don't think about wolves much when I am in the woods. I see sign all the time, but they have a natural fear here, which is not the case where they have been reintroduced. Around here, even with them being protected, there are plenty that get killed by folks. It keeps 'em honest.

Though there really isn't much ranching around here anymore, there are still some around and they do have livestock losses. But again, if they could protect their property instead of having to call wildlife services and have them set traps(which rarely work), there would probably be less problems. And let me just say, there are plenty of folks who feel the only good wolf is a dead wolf, but they tend to be the old-timers. Luckily, the next generation is a bit more level-headed.

My biggest worry is that people won't be able to protect their property after wolves are delisted, since the "greens" feel any killing of a wolf is bad, and that killing problem wolves will reduce the population. Unfortunatly, if we have problems with getting sane laws here, where we have had wolves for awhile, I feel for you folks that are just starting out.

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