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hawkeye270's picture
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I love this thread. I read

I love this thread. I read the great book Ghost Grizzly's while working up in Rocky Mountain National Park this summer. It got me really excited to go and find a lot of the locations that he referred to but I haven't had the time to go and check them out. My reason for going would be much more about seeing the areas that the last Grizzly's were confirmed in Colorado (and to witness the habitat that they used) than looking for my own sighting of one... although that would be pretty neat.

I think that Douglasmtn's post is about as good as it gets. He really gets at the core issues at hand. As far as the fact that the CDOW identification book still shows grizzly... I don't think you can make any argument either way on that. There are thousands of non-outdoor people in this state that if you asked them if we had grizzly's, they would respond with a confident yes. So putting them in that book just lets these people know that they are not looking at a grizzly when they spot a black bear. That is not to say that the CDOW knows more than they let on though.

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More than that

hawkeye270 wrote:

There are thousands of non-outdoor people in this state that if you asked them if we had grizzly's, they would respond with a confident yes. So putting them in that book just lets these people know that they are not looking at a grizzly when they spot a black bear. That is not to say that the CDOW knows more than they let on though.

There has got to be more ignorant people than that.  I think the vast majority of city dwellers have no idea about wildlife.  It always amazes me when people live so close to the edge of the metro area, discover a cougar, foxes, or raccoons in their back yard and think it's a annomally and get the impression that these wild animals are getting bolder and more brazen.  They have no idea just how normal those sightings are in their area.  I don't think the vast majority of people, including avid outdoors people, would know the difference between a black bear or a grizzly bear.  Sorry to get off subject.  To get back on subject I think that book Ghost Grizzlies is a pretty interesting read.  Fact is that there are lots of things about our own known common state wildlife species that we don't even know. 

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Cololrado Grizzly Bears

Hey, guys I don't get on here much, but I guess I've been thinkin about Grizzlies alot lately.  What would you think if a bunch of us sportsman got together to petition the DOW to reintroduce Grizzly bears into the San Juan mountains?  I think that if the state could get a written agreement from the U.S. fish and wildlife service that exempted them from normal Endangered Species act requirements this could be a good thing for Colorado.  I mean an agreement that said that once bear numbers reached a certain number we could hunt them!  We would also have to write in a provision that would protect ranchers and allow them to shoot any Grizzly bear that was messing with their livestock.  The CDOW is talking with their partners now about a Wolverine reintroduction that would also exempt them from normal E.S.A. requirements. I hope they can get it done.  So instead of letting a bunch of tree huggers write the rules of reintroduction we could have a reintroduction that ranchers and sportsman could live with.  We could lead the way with a common sense aproach to making Colorado a little more wild again!  I really love this stuff!  Hey we hunters are the ones that truly love animals not those yuppy city dwellers.  We could have a sustainable common sense Grizzly management plan that would protect us from law suits from groups like wild earth gaurdian.  We could make the FEDS sign an agreement that would totally protect our state from E.S.A. requirements on Grizzly bear reintroduction.  Grizzly bears are the slowest reproducing animals in North America making it easy to keep their numbers in check! I'd really like to hear what you all have to say, please tell your friends and family to chime in here!  I'm prepared to invest my time to get something started with CDOW!  I think they'll take us seriously sense we are their biggest customers!  Remember Grizzlies are not like Wolves they don't over populate and kill everything in sight, having Grizzlies would be really cool!  If anybody would like to help please let me know!Thumbs up

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Not me

I'm not sure that would be such a good idea.  I for one wouldn't push for their reintroduction.  I figure if we already have a remnant small population left over here, then fine, if the population grows, then fine.  But a reintroduction?  I would not go out if my way for that.  I'm sure the ranch owners around this state wouldn't either.  Plus I like hunting, fishing, and camping here without having to worry about the likelyhood of Grizzlies. 

By the way Elk Slayer I thought you had more than 4 posts.  I thought you frequented this forum much more than that.  Only 4 posts?  That seems odd. 

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Reintroduction

I understand your position and respect that.  I just think what makes Colorado so special is the wildlife we have here.  Honestly I think our state would be cooler if we had a small population of Grizz in the San Juans.  It's likely there are a few!  I mean I would like to know there are more.  We could have a hunting season some day, I think it would bring alot of tourism to our state.  It would make Colorado feel a little more wild, and would'nt it be great to see a Grizzly roaming the high tundra someday?  I have only 5 posts now.  If you have any interest at all I've created a profile on Facebook called Colorado Grizzly Reintroduction.  In their I outline that we would only support Grizzly reintroduction if it protects hunters, and ranchers.Yes

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Everything would be fine that

Everything would be fine that is until one or two of them wandered down lower and decided to check out the local cattle and sheep population.  That and along with them being quite a bit more agressive towards humans would put them at a low end or reintroduction for me. 

It is a lot like the folks that live on the front range and would love to see some wolfes reintroduced here in the mountains.  It would be fine for them to have them here but not back onto the plains where they also exsisted since that is where they live and would have to put up with them. 

WesternHunter's picture
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I just

It's not that I have a personal reason against it. I love wildlife.  I just think that with the massive increase in our states population, especially within the last 20 years, considering the massive growth and development, we've reached a point of no return.  There is no way of making Colorado what it used to be without causing and leaving a devistating void that would cause more harm than good for the economy and much more.  We were able to enjoy wild Colorado in years past because the state population of residents was much lower then, and over developement didn't really exists.  I just don't think our state, as we've made it, can currently handle a sizeable population of Grizzlies now.  Think about it, Colorado has changed and evolved a whole lot, more than most people realize, since that last large population of Grizzlies roamed around here.  I think their survivalablity and sustainability in places like Alaska, NW Wyoming, and Montana works well because of the vastness of habitat to support the grizzly, especially in Alaska.  If there is a remnant isolated population of grizzlies here (and I don't doubt that there is) it has remained as is with likely decreasing numbers for a reason.  Habitat.

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Reintroduction

Hey, your right we've got alot of yuppy's on the front range. They're extremely ignorant!  I just think a Grizzly population in Sawatch and San Juan mountains would'nt be bad.  They could manage the population to stay within those regions.  Remember North west wyoming is booming.  Jackson Hole is very popular, they are building like crazy there.  The San Juan range is the biggest mountain range in the rocky mountains by far. 90% of the range is public property.  And our habitat is better then Wyomings.  The only reason the Grizzlies hav'nt boomed is because they were practically wiped out by ranchers and government trappers.  Hav'nt you read Ghost Grizzlies.  A small population like we probably have would take a long time to grow if at all.  A Grizzly reintroduction here would work, if we could hunt and manage the population.  Your right the people that are moving here are extremely ignorant so they probably would'nt like hunting em.  So, maybe it's just a pipe dream!

 

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variables

I think there are too many vairables to consider.  One of which is the yuppy leftwing menality sweeping across our state, as you mension.  Really don't know what the benefit would be though if we were to reintroduce them, besides for hunting.  The states population would just have to get used to the idea that bears (all bears) are bears.  We have people so ignorant now today along the front range that actually think it's okay to feed bears and we had one woman who was killed because she conditioned bears into coming to her property for food.  Bears are bears, plain and simple, but the tree-hugger environmentalist animal-lover menatlity doesn't seem to grasp that factual concept.  I don't know.  It's all really facinating to me.  On one hand I think it would be cool, on the other hand I don't know if it would be compatable with what's going on in Colorado present day.  Nothing wrong with seriously considering the idea and taking a serious look into it though.

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Just not practical

This is an interesting post, and there have been several valid points raised.

As far as reintroduction to Colorado, I don't think the government would ever let us hunt the grizzlies after reintroduction, no matter how successful and sustainable the population.  If the animals started to outgrow the intended reintroduction area, the government (both federal and state) would probably have to commission a huge, worthless study that would cost thousands of taxpayer dollars.  After the ridiculous study, they would probably decide that the best course of action would be to hire "professional sharpshooters" to target problem animals, again at the expense of the taxpayer.  Then animal activists would fight the entire process through the legal system, costing even more taxpayer dollars.  The entire time this is going on, they would be ignorning the fact that hunters could help manage the population, and pay rather handsomely to do so.  It is not that I am opposed to the thought of grizzlies in Colorado, it is entirely that I do not think it would ever work out well for either the sportsman or the taxpayer.  Just my $.02.