27 replies [Last post]
CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/apr/27/case-may-unravel-racial-spoils-system/?opinion

Case may unravel racial spoils system
EmailComments (22)PrintFacebookDiggDelicious.By George Will - Washington Post

April 27, 2009

Washington — Wednesday morning, a lawyer defending in the Supreme Court what the city of New Haven, Conn., did to Frank Ricci and 17 other white firemen (including one Hispanic) was not 20 seconds into his argument when Chief Justice John Roberts interrupted to ask: Would it have been lawful if the city had decided to disregard the results of the exam to select firemen for promotion because it selected too many black and too few white candidates?

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

Thank you, Justice Roberts, for stating the obvious.

That's a great litmus test for racism -- switch the words "black" and "white" and see if it still sounds legitimate.

I think we've reached the point where we as a society have moved beyond race -- at least in the sense that drove the issue for centuries. However, we're dogged by people who have made an industry out of race baiting, and who have created a climate where they can pursue their agenda unopposed because any discussion of the matter whatsoever gets one branded as a "racist."

I once worked with a female cop who prided herself for always passing the Army's physical fitness standards for her height and weight as a man -- and considered any woman who did less a disservice to her gender. To her, making special allowances for her gender was condescending and insulting, because it promulgated the idea that women were weak and could only get ahead in life if someone lowered their standards for them. There are some who view race the same way -- but who get labeled racists or traitors if they say it.

WesternHunter's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2374
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

The standards for a job or enterance into a certain field or school, should remain at a high bar. Depending on the type of job or the position that bar can be whatever is decided. Opportunity for everyone should be equal, and should always have been. Afterall equal opportunity is one of the attributes embrassed by the founding of this country, but only seems to have been realized within the last couple decades or so.

If you do your best and your best meets or exceeds the bar then regardless of race or gender, you've earned your place. That's something no one can discredit you for. Sounds to me like this Ricci guy busted his butt and sacraficed a lot to earn his score and should be allowed to enjoy his rewards.

Earn it!! It's a concept and value that many in this country today are working so hard to erradicate.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

I think it was Thomas Sowell that said people tend to confuse equal opportunity with equal outcome. There's a difference between making sure everyone gets an equal start vs making sure everyone finishes the same regardless of how hard they ran the race.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1583
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

I agree with westernhunter. This country is fast taking effort out of the equation.

It starts in elementary school. Years ago I coached Midget Football(10-12 year olds) when one year the League passed a rule that we were forbidden to have an MVP award or any other award that singled out a particular player. The entire team got a "Participation" trophy, even the ones who almost never showed up for practice and made no special effort to become better players. We were allowed to have the Team pick a "most improved player" award but us coaches were not allowed to participate in the selection.
It is being ingrained into the children's minds that the Bar will be lowered to match even the laziest of efforts. You are "entitled" to what ever it is that you desire.
Race baiting is now just a tool for this.

cowgal's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

Unfortunately this type of discrimination has been going on for quite some time. It just has not received much press. It happens on many levels, from getting into colleges to getting a job. I do not feel anyone should get preferential treatment due to gender or race.

Jtapia, when my kids were in sports we still kept score and gave awards. I was appalled to learn that in recent years they have even quit keeping score. I know my kids would not have played and practiced as hard as they did if no score had been kept. I guess its all under the guise now of not upsetting the underachievers. I say baloney! I can remember the disappointment of losing, or not getting awards, but I also believe it prepared them for real life. As WesternHunter stated, you've got to EARN IT! Doesn't matter if its sports or work, if you busted your butt and proven yourself, then you've earned it!

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

I've seen exactly what you're talking about, Jtap. In my case, the issue was my daughter's junior high science fair. She spent days on a project that mapped magnetic attraction over distance, and a lot of time building a first-rate display. When I walked into the cafeteria to pick up her project after judging, I noticed there weren't any ribbons.

"Where are the ribbons?" I asked a teacher.

"Oh, we don't give out ribbons anymore." She explained. "We used to, but we found that it hurt too many feelings."

"Are you kidding me?" I asked incredulously. "Look at that project over there -- a sweet potato in a glass with a piece of posterboard written in pencil. The kid spent maybe 15 minutes on the whole thing. What are you telling my daughter? That laziness yields the same results as effort? Why should she try? Aren't you giving her incentive to sit on her butt and wait for the world to take care of her? How is she supposed to go into the world and make value judgments like which employees to promote, or which supplier provides a better product for her business? Shouldn't you be posturing her for success, instead of failure?"

The looked at me like I had three heads, because I obviously didn't "get it."

And by the way, "midget" football is politically incorrect and could insult someone of shorter stature. eye roll

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

I saw a kids show on tv and they were playing a game called losing is fun.

Losing is not fun and shouldn't be encouraged. I got picked last for sports when I was younger. I didn't whine or cry, I was happy to get picked even if it was last and guess what. I worked hard to get better and eventually got picked first sometimes.

MLK had it right, judge people on the content of their character and not the color of their skin. You're the best for the job, then you should get it, regardless of whether you're black, yellow or even white.

Offline
Location: California
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1071
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case
Quote:
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Teddy Roosevelt

No one wins all the time. Self esteem is earned, not a birthright. Race should not qualify or disqualify you for anything.

Offline
Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

One has to accept the fact though that some people are disadvantaged by their environment when growing up and the situation of their parents and peers.

Take the example or racist bigoted hicks. One can blame them entirely or realize that more than likely their parents were also racist ignorant bigots. I do realize that just because ones mom spent her entire 9 months of pregnancy falling down drunk on whiskey is no reason to assume that one is starting out ones life on a less than sure footing, but having racists for parents, friends and acquaintances also has a negative effect. So yes and no, race by itself isn’t always a sole contributing factor for disparity of opportunity, but being the product of a long line of ignorant bigots is.

I’m just using this as one example.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Change of Pace - SCOTUS Case

Wow...I don't know that I've ever seen so much bigoted opinion and stereotypes crammed into one paragraph before.

Standardized tests in this case were developed to remove personal bias. Are you trying to argue that throwing the list of promotees out because it didn't have enough black names on it is evidence of a vast redneck conspiracy?

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Voter Registrationbitmasher410/19/2008 22:25 pm
SCOTUS to hear McDonald vs Chicagobitmasher310/02/2009 09:51 am
SCOTUS Expands Gun Rightsbitmasher407/04/2010 10:23 am
Congresswoman Nancy BoydaCVC502/22/2008 07:56 am
Pack-in huntsmytyk209/11/2009 06:53 am