Troy,
Just out of curiosity, what part of Pa are you hunting? Everyone I know in Pa are seeing deer every day out! Im heading over there this weekend for Mondays opener. May hook up with Strut and a few others while Im there. But Ill first be hunting on my old property in Grantville (south central). You asked a question in your poll, "How many deer have you seen starve to death in Pa?"

Well the answer to that is MANY. In the years that I hunted Pa, even before I moved there, I saw MANY starved deer. In the past few years since the doe cullings, I personally have seen a markedly better improved health of the deer I was seeing. Bigger better bucks, healthier doe and STILL seeing deer every day I was out in the woods. Are there fewer? Yeppers as that was the POINT!!! How many deer are you seeing on the side of the road after being hit by cars? Ill bet its still a lot! I see a lot of people complaining that they arent seeing deer, but my question is, why not? I dont have an answer because I just have to many friends that are seeing them every day all over the state. Its confusing to me to say the least as I dont live there anymore (miss it badly too) but I see a few complaining yet I have all kinds of friends that are hunters like me and get in the woods deep and hunt hard. I do agree that there were a FEW places in Pa that the doe cullings did have to hard of an impact (which is why I asked where you are hunting) but overall, and I hunt all over the state, its had a very positive impact on the overall health of the herd. I see people complaining saying that the PGC is just money hungry, but the fact is, they spend every dime on land and game conservation. What do you think PAYS for all that state land you hunt on? Money from license sales is the answer. The federal government doesn't contribute diddly squat to it. People thinks it does but in actuallity they dont! Try to get a handle on some facts before you start throwing accusations at the PGC saying that they are just money hungry. In case you havnt noticed, license prices are lower in PA than dang near ANYWHERE in the country!!

First off I live on a farm in South Central PA. Yes we have PA Game Commission land wich there is barren fields that the food and cover coir from the PA Game Commission does little to feed the wildlife. The farmers in our area are the ones that feed them. You say the money goes to state land. Well they pay little taxes to the county and township.
The last track of ground purchased around here was a long time ago. I just got done hunting bear in Buchanan State Forest deep in the mountains for 3 days and I saw more porcupines than deer. I saw deer around in the homes before light and then coming home I saw them again around homes. On 350 acres of my property and my brothers adjoining property wich consist of 200 acres I have never seen a deer starved to death with the grass and winter small grain like wheat and rye and so forth the deer has plenty to eat in the mild winters we have know.
For the license cost don’t pat the PA GC on the back you pat the Representatives on the back they are the ones that sets that not the commissions. They ask for a raise every year and get turn down mostly yearly. They do very little here in my area for the wildlife.
I have seen dead deer in the mountains in muzzleloader season but you know I have gone over and looked at the animal and it was always a bad shot or the hunter never followed up his shot and killed the deer in rifle season.
The idea behind this all was to have the fawn crop born at one time and the coyotes and predators would not get all of them. It was in the northern part of the state that MR Alt stated that the forest was being over browsed. Monday when you are hunting ask your friends how many deer have you seen in your old hunting spot compared to know. I remember hearing my parents state that seeing a deer was amazing thing. Well it is getting there again.
For the federal Government I disagree on something’s you say. The federal government has a tax on the sporting goods that the hunters purchase and then there is a Federal Waterfowl Stamp and they also contribute to projects that they do for wildlife. Yes the PA Game lands are bought with hunting license but we have state forest and other land we hunt on. I my self hunt on privet property and I know the PA Game Commission gives about as much as the Federal Government does to keep it up and running. The people are not complaining to me in my store about the point restriction at all. What they are complaining about is the numbers. I never known a farmer to get a bigger bull was to shoot more cows and get the numbers were they are equal to. I mean we have 72 + days of doe hunting in this state. We have culled the does know how about cutting them back and leave them stable off a little. Check all over the US you stated that our licenses is the cheapest but you know I have hunted in other states even Texas and the ranchers down there would never cull the herd like they did in South Bedford, Fulton Huntingdon, Franklin Counties. I walked one morning Friday before bear season in Game Land 48 for 2 hours on top of the mountain I saw one deer track that was it. So yes we see deer every day but I do not make the statement that the deer herd is a healthy number. The GC used to brag about the number of deer they have in the state now they don’t state it. The thing is the GC does not want to say we messed up. What happen to MR ALT.? He is no longer employed by the Commission. Did you know that?
It takes 3 things to grow bug bucks. Genetics, Age, and food. You can take a midget and leave him live a natural life and feed him porterhouse stakes and you know he will never grow up to be the size of hulk Hogan even taking steroids. They would have done better trying to get the Genetics built up in the herd. But a few more years of hunters that decide that since I have licenses I am going to fill my tag. The non residents is getting fewer every year. See I run a sporting good store and farm so I get to here it on both sides. But do me a favor the next time you are hunting and you see 3 deer in on day instead of 30 say the deer herd is doing good. You never see on TV them hunting in PA do you.
GOOD LUCK MONDAY on your hunting But for me ON MY FARM THE DEER HERD IS COMING BACK AND IT WILL CONTINUE DUE TO NO DOE HUNTING!
If the GC wants them killed on there property well that is them but on mine enough is enough.

Troy
http://www.greatamericanhuntingtore.com
http://www.huntingthebackwoods.com

Well... Heading back out in a minute to hunt the non existant deer herd in Pa. Boy I tell ya, them non existant deer sure are fat. Especially the 2 that are hanging on our meat pole from this morning. Again I say this, There arent as many, but there are STILL many deer left. Just gotta know how to hunt them!!!

Saw 22 deer this morning MYSELF. Passed on a HUGE buck because I didnt feel comfortable with the shot (was through a lot of heavy brush at 140 yards)

Now again I ask, why is it me and everyone else I know are seeing plenty of deer and the complainers arent? Maybe the complainers should focus on hunting rather than complaining and they would be more successful? Just my lil ole INFORMED opinion there since I know im seeing deer as well as all my friends HERE IN PA!!

Don't really know much about other sections of PA, but i hunt the northeastern parts of Pa,by the delaware state forest area,See plenty of deer.
What i have seen is alot of road hunters and some with a can of brew between
there legs.My opinion have to get off the beaten path and away from the road
to see alot of deer.Good luck all and be safe.

Lets keep it civil folks or this topic is going away.

Thankya ADKBEAR... I bit my fingers HARD not to reply to that lil post Malt put up (yes I read it before you deleted it) Proud of me????

cam68conv, I was just wondering what general area of the state you were hunting? Seeing 22 deer in the morning was not too bad, especially in the all day downpour. Congrats on your 2 deer. I didn't see alot of deer movement without pressure until the rain let off a little in the afternoon. I still think the deer density is low in some parts of the state. Even around agriculture, I haven't seen a solid group of 20 or more deer together for a number of years now.

Was barely even a drizzle and that was just between around 4:30 and 5:30... I was in the Grantville area about half an hour outside of Harrisburg. Weather was always wierd around there. Would be coming a flood in harrisburg and sunshine in Grantville. LoL I would always tell folks, "welcome to Pa, If you dont like the weather, give it a minute, IT'LL CHANGE!!!"

These wernt all together. Saw a group of 4 at first light on the field edge then I moved locations to the other side of the property and saw another small group. Then the rest were just from moving a little at a time through the woods spotting. All in all was a fun couple of days. I miss living in Pa. Hopefully be able to move back soon!

Numbers are definatly lower, which around where I lived that was most DEFINATLY a good thing. Poor deer were so little my beagles were gettin heavier than them!! I did notice the mast around my old place was VERY small to almost non existant. Even the big whiteoaks didnt look like they had hardly dropped any from the sign around them.

The deer on my old property and the surrounding area are most definatly much healthier. But we did manage very well, only taking quality bucks (or crap bucks if they didnt meet the criteria), and a serious reduction of the doe herd. We were doing this for a while before the GC even adopted the new Horn limits and around the same time for the Doe cullings.

Ive said this time and time again but there are a couple of people that just cant seem to grasp the words. I have TOTALLY agreed that there are a FEW places in Pa that were over harvested. But the OVERALL herd has been greatly improved health and habitat wise. If you look at the average weights of the does being taken, they are a bit higher than average. Bucks racks are definatly showing more MASS as well as points which is a clear sign of better habitat. Not to mention that a few BEASTS have been brought out of the North Western part of the state field dressing well over 200 pounds. One is posted on this sight. Ya gotta admit that that was near unheard of just a few years ago.

One day maybe some of the complainers will finaly come to recognise the overall health of the herd is much more importaint than being able to hop out the truck and whack a deer.

Are there more things that could be done better with the herd? Of course!! They could definatly try to reduce the number of does taken in the areas that have been over hunted and I say again there are a FEW of them!! But overall much has been done for the improvement of the herd health and Ill stick to that statement untill I see for myself that there is a problem!! Hard to go away from the facts that I have 42 friends that hunt all over the state of Pa and they are ALL seeing healthy deer and plenty of them!! Less YES healthier YES.

Glad to hear the rain missed some part of the state. I hunted in the southwest and monday was an all day downpour. After dropping some deer off at the butchers I will say the amount of deer there was between a third to a half of what its normally been for a first day harvest. I did manage to see the most massive rack I think I've ever seen on a PA buck this year, during archery season. He was out of my range though and I failed to coax him in closer. The second day of rifle deer were busting out of heavy cover only after getting within a few yards of them. I am trying the northwest part of the state this saturday. Hopefully I will catch sight of a monster over there. I think a reduction in the doe harvest from the northern forests may be a good idea for a couple of years. I would like to see a three points to the main beam point restriction statewide, with brow tine length not being considered to determine if a buck is legal. Determining browtine length can be difficult depending on the stance of the deer and surrounding cover. At this point, I do not understand the general preoccupation with antlers, unless you are a trophy hunter.

Sure very proud but to be fair I deleted as many of your posts there as I did singlemalts. So lets put the pointing fingers away and move on like adults.