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Location: colorado
Joined: 01/14/2005
Posts: 24
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

Fuzzy thanks for info, that is great info, I was afraid of the 168 mabey being a little light, the hornady 180 sp does the next best but I will try more of nosler partion this weekend with the longer ocl as much as they cost surely they should shoot better than 1/2 the price bullets.

This shooting now has cost me a scope !! I just orderd the 8.5 x25x 50mm leopold Brick Wall,)
I thought the vangaurd deserved it Think The wife dont know yet what I got to protect her and the family Shame on You! Oops! Thumbs up

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

If you change any of the components in a round. You should start with the suggested minimum and work up to pressure signs. Keep records of the loads you build. Once you have a record. You know that you have been to that place and don't have to go back to square one.
Run them up to pressure signs and compare what each formula does. Try bullets, cases, primers and powders from different manufacturers. I load for several different rounds. I use 9 different powder from 3 different manufactures. 5 different primers from 3 manufacturers. 14 different bullets from 4 manufacturers. Winchester cases for all. In a variety of combinations.
Use powders that fill the case to a least 90%.
What I have found. Is the most accurate round will be less than the maximum load the rifle can handle. It usually runs about a grainish less. Which is great. It will give some allowance for any pressure changes from temperature or altitude, etc...

Location: colorado
Joined: 01/14/2005
Posts: 24
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

thanks again fuzzy. what are signs of too much pressure? I suppose craked cases mushroomed barrels Shame on You! seriosly cases cracked maybe and ?
How much do you jump in grains each time you are working out loads?

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Location: Peyton Co
Joined: 01/22/2006
Posts: 90
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

Coolmountainmorning,

Some things to look for are a bulging case, flatting of the primer and primer flow (the primer will start to look like it went into the firing pin hole). Hopefully you see the primer starting to flatten out first. These are just some things to look for. There are far more knowledgable people out there than me, hopefully they willl chime in.

As far as increasing powder weight I go 1/2 grain increments. As stated in the previous post I too find the most accurate loads aren't neccessarily the max loads for that caliber. Last year I bought the Lyman 1200 powder dispensor. The best reloading accessory I have bought by far. By the way are you using a chronograph?

Good luck with your work up

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

When you fire a factory load. Save the fired case and keep one unfired round. Tear down the unfired round and measure both case. Look at the circumference and measure the diameter about 3/16" above the belt on both cases and look closely at the fired primer.
Do the same with a fired hand load and a case that has been fired and resized. Take note of the differences.
Case separation is more a result of not sizing properly. A case should last through several firings. Look for case stretch. Usually indicated by a shiny ring around the circumference.
Flat primers are a good sign of being very near to maximum pressure for the round. It's not uncommon to load a round to pressures that will flatten the primer. What you don't want is the primer looking like it is completely flattened and no distinct edge between the primer and the case.
A dished or hole in a primer may or may not be caused by excessive pressure. A worn or over sized primer pocket will show the same results.
If the bolt is hard to open. Is a very good sign of way to much pressure.
Brass deposited on the bolt face is a very good sign of way to much pressure. This usually leaves a shiny spot on the head of the case.
It goes on and on. Read the manuals carefully. Don't be afraid of reaching pressure signs and don't load beyond the capabilities of the firarm you are loading for.
A new, modern bolt action rifle can handle some very extreme pressure. What usually happens, if the case is properly sized, is the bolt will jam. Sometimes to the extent that you can't open it. The case is frozen against the walls of the chamber. This is not good. If this happens do not fire anymore of those rounds and have the rifle looked at by a reputable gunsmith. If the action becomes hard to open don't fire anymore of those rounds.
If the case separates there are gases escaping where gases should not be escaping and there will be unburned powder in the chamber, action, etc... That is a whole bunch of scary. If you are planning on loading some rounds to there absolute maximum. Be sure to carefully check every case for signs of stretch.
A very common problem is. Cases are not trimmed short enough and when fired the case gets into the riflings and pinch the bullet, raising the pressure. The signs would indicate that you had a load that was over max for that rifle. When in fact, the load may have been well below max.
Keep at it, good will.

Location: colorado
Joined: 01/14/2005
Posts: 24
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

wow! thanks rip and fuzzy for all that fine info!
I am not using a chrongraph and I have been trying to go with 1/2 gr increments also, I have not noticed any of those signs yet of too much pressure.
I am looking for the most accurate load that has decent fps
I have been watching the cases for stretch (measuring with callipers)
I shot about another 10 groups today with the Jap 300 (not the vangaurd)
looks like I may have to settle with 11/4" --- 1 3/4" groups was hoping to get it under 1" consistantly. The hornady 168gr bthp always flys the best in both guns
the vangaurd is dialed pretty good to suit me.
what do you guys think about the barnes bullet? will they act like the high $ nosler with no results. I probably jusy havent found the right combo yet.
If you guys had these guns what kind of a group do you think you could get out of them by just trying the right loads (no barrel or action work) I must say since
I floated the jap and put a little pressure under barrel it cut the group size in 1/2.
Thanks for the help and all the comments.
Rip how fast is that lyman 1200 to dump out the right grains

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Location: Peyton Co
Joined: 01/22/2006
Posts: 90
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

Coolmountainmorning,

The 1200 is fast and accurate. I will dish out a 55 grain charge in under 10 seconds. Once you get a load you can store it in the memory and call it when you reload. No more leveling a beam scale throwing a charge then using a trickler. Switching powders is fairly easy as well.

I was at the range this morning. Here is a picture of the load I'm going to use. Its 55.5 grains of IMR4350 pushing a Nosler 180 Partition through a Winchester model 70. Avg velocity was 2737. NOt too bad I wish I had some more sand bags. I like to make it as solid as possible when developing a load. Now I will load up 10 rounds to sight in and see what kind of accuracy and velocity I get. The Winchester is stainless with a synthectic stock. I did bed it with Brownells acuglas. Even though it is synthetic I still wanted to have a solid base for the recoil lug.

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Location: colorado
Joined: 01/14/2005
Posts: 24
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

Rip the Lyman sounds sweet!!!! santa may have to make a u turn and bring me 1200 I dont think he is at north pole yet!
Nice picture of fresh group looks like about 1 1/8" group is that right?
Keep them pics coming I like to see others burning powder grouping. Yes

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Location: Juneau,Alaska
Joined: 02/20/2006
Posts: 31
barnes tsx

I went to the barnes triple shock this year instead of the failsafe and my group tightened up from m-70 .300 wsm. 180gr. Went from 1 1/2" to just shy of and inch. worked for me.

Location: colorado
Joined: 01/14/2005
Posts: 24
bought 300 van.wby walmart (300 wby wont group what to get)

thanks for info gold belt, I have not tried barnes yet but I think I will real soon!
I have the Jap doing pretty consistant less than 1" groups now!
79 Gr RL 22 with 180 gr hornady SP with match primers,Tommorro I will shoot
at 500 yrds and if I can hit anything there I will move out to 650yrds(end of my property) I will give report if its not windy wife says its our anniversary tommoro Shame on You!
so hopfully get in some shooting at crack of dawn Big smile and at sunset Yes
and maybe lunch time Laugh

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